Wish list help

[Dan72]

Okay, so I'll start this here. If it needs to go under general talk it can be moved by the powers that be. So as some of you may know I found an albino radix in the yard this spring, Nebraska type. The bug has (or snake) has bitten and my wish list of garters grows daily. What I ask of the forum is the following (great idea Steve/Guidofatherof5), you have these snakes and it is your experience I wish to take advantage of. My shortened list is as follows in no order: Puget, Oregon red spotted, California red sided, and Eastern black neck. Also a big fan of the following morphs? Albino flames, Snows, (actually anything albino or flame hot:rolleyes:). So for those of you that call any of these friends, what are they like? Temperament, how and what do they eat/like to eat, do you house them together or separate if you have several from the list. I just really want this to be an opportunity for you to share your stories here and by doing so help me understand better which direction I want to go first, or at all. And of course, pics, pics, pics;). Thanks in advance for your help.

[d_virginiana]

It's an addiction. I'm not even joking.

I've only ever had easterns, but most garters seem to be very similar in temperament. The only big difference is Wandering garters, which are the only species that sees other garters as food. I've also heard people occasionally talk about ribbons being skittish, and concinnus and similis being a bit nippy..
Both of my easterns are very laid back and sweet. :)

You probably already know about this, but if you plan on housing your snakes together, you can have either males/females of the same species, but you can also keep different species together as long as everyone is the same sex.

btw, my baby eastern is a flame. They look great as babies, but they gain even more color as they get bigger!

[katach]

I keep Pugets. We currently have 2 girls and 2 boys. My girls are a little more difficult to handle. They have never tried to bite or musk us, but they don't enjoy handling as much as the boys. I would say feeding time needs to be closely watched, they get quite aggressive. I was chatting with Steve earlier and likened them to a bully trying to steal your lunch money. In my experience with them they don't seem to like to "normal temp high" They are most active in the low 70's. They spend a lot of time on the cool side and only bask briefly during the day. They house quite well together.
We also have T. ordinoides (Northwestern). We have 3 girls and 2 boys. They are a smaller garter, but good things come in small packages. They are sweet, cuddly, and easily tamed. I think they are my favorite. I can give you more info on them from my experience if you want.

[ssssnakeluvr]

My concinnus are very mellow. the infernalis and similis I have had have been nippy. I have had a few nippy easterns (my orange eastern that passed away was a snot!!) wanderings are one of the more mellow one. I have never had any cannibalism with them.... I recently caught an awesome yearling with a cool pattern...she was housed in a holding tank with some new w/c breeders....they never bothered her. they will eat lizards too... found that out the hard way many years ago. each garter has its own personality. I would only house the same species together unless you are absolutely certain they are the same sex.

once the thamnophis bug bites....there's no cure....except buy more garters :cool:

[Dan72]

Thanks so far to everyone, keep it coming. Don question to you as a breeder. If I as a customer order a pair from you, and a male and female is what is wanted. Lets say a pair of Oregon red spotted. Do you as a breeder purposely send a male and female that are not sibs encase the buyer wants them to breed later down the road. Would this only be done at buyers request because usually sibs from the same litter are what would be sent? As a buyer if breeding down the road is whats desired are you better off to order male from one breeder, female from another? Would this do anything to strengthen gene pool coming from different locations/breeders? I guess I have a million questions (not quite), would these be better served in pm's or do you mind talking within the thread? A chance to learn is something all of us newbies are wanting but I don't want to be asking for any trade secrets if there are things you would rather discuss in pm.

[Invisible Snake]

I also would like to know the answers to these questions.

[Dan72]

For those of you that have purchased snakes because of a certain coloring, the red of a flame or the blue in a puget as examples. Have you found that as the snake ages and with sheds the colors become more vivid and intense? Is it possible to NOT win the color lottery and even though you've purchased the right snake the colors just never mature as the snake does?

[Dan72]

Breeders a question: When your litters arrive I'm sure you have no problem finding them homes, with a popular morph I'm sure there are even wait lists. If an order is placed for snake X and you have 4 to choose from, do you just walk over and pick one out and fill the order? Does the customer get to ask for pics of snakes available and get to pick their snake? Curious....:rolleyes:

[chris-uk]

Lots of good questions Dan. :) I don't have any of the snakes on your list, however, all the snakes on your list feature in my list (infernalis is top of my list and I hope I'll be getting at least one this year), so I thought I'd let you know that you seem to have impecible taste.
Others have said the same thing, but in my experience garters have their own personalities and snakes of the same species often have different personalities. The species I have that are the same species are opposite sex, so I don't know if the difference in personality is down to differences between the sexes. Observations of our 9 are:
T. radix - male and female both friendly and mellow.
T. e. cuitzeoensis - male more skittish than female, but both are quite shy and easily spooked.
T. marcianus - albino and normal female are both friendly.
T. cyrptosis - both are quite reclusive and shy feeders, the female is less so than the male.
T. s. parietalis - female is really active, friendly and easy going.

Hope this helps.

[EasternGirl]

Well, Dan, as you know, I have an Iowa snow plains and an albino checkered. I house them together, they are both males...close in age...Possum is around a year old and Hermes is 10 mos old. They were both captive bred. In terms of temperament, they are both the sweetest snakes in the world...but they do tend to be a bit skiddish...Hermes, the T.marcianus is a bit more skiddish than Possum, the T.radix. T.radixes have a reputation as being very social snakes. Possum is the one with the neuro disorder...he enjoys playing peek-a-boo games with me...and likes to coil around my fingers. Interestingly for an albino...he seems to like light...I put a little bit of light on his enclosure every day and he comes out more if there is some light on. Because he is in the enclosure with Hermes, who does not like light, I only use a red bulb for heat...with a UTH for additional heat as needed. Hermes only comes out at night. Both of them are very nocturnal by nature. They both also love climbing and hanging out in the top of their fake trees....they also enjoy basking sometimes under the red light. Possum loves tilapia...Hermes loves pinkies. Oh, and interestingly...Hermes will only eat if I put his food under his hide and then stick him in his hide with it. After he is done, I always find him....fat and happy lying on the dish under the hide! Possum rolls in his food dish and gets food all over him...attacking his food as though it were alive! I love watching him eat. Possum loves to eat. :) They are both awesome snakes to have. They love being together and sleep curled up together. Great thread, Dan!

[Dan72]

Thanks Marnie, Chris, Kat, and Don.... everything helps. All knowledge helps and any wisdom given is appreciated. If ever you think of something else or experience something else that would seem helpful please contribute. Thanks!

Thanks Lora....:o

[ConcinusMan]

Have you found that as the snake ages and with sheds the colors become more vivid and intense? Is it possible to NOT win the color lottery and even though you've purchased the right snake the colors just never mature as the snake does?


My answer to first two questions:

Yes, and yes. However, in regards to the second question, I purchased what was supposed to be a regular "Iowa" (T-) albino T. radix from Don. I got pics of the snake. I was perfectly happy with his color as follows:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9306/iowaalbinoradix.jpg

As he matured, he began to turn orange gradually. I "hit the lottery" and by two years old, he looked like this:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2765/aaa007large.jpg



Breeders a question: When your litters arrive I'm sure you have no problem finding them homes, with a popular morph I'm sure there are even wait lists. If an order is placed for snake X and you have 4 to choose from, do you just walk over and pick one out and fill the order? Does the customer get to ask for pics of snakes available and get to pick their snake? Curious....:rolleyes:

I personally always provide a color accurate photo of the actual snake I intend to ship, before closing the deal and accepting payment, unless the customer accepts a basic description and/or doesn't really care. In the latter case, I'll at least show a picture of another snake which looks very similar. I also try to provide other details such as, what the snake has been eating.

For breeders with good reputation and / or do large volume, pics of the parents and description of genes carried will usually suffice. If the babies pretty much all look the same, there's no point in doing anything but showing one snake to represent them all.

[Invisible Snake]

Hey ConcinnusMan do you still have him?

[EasternGirl]

Is that Amy? Such a gorgeous snake! I remember I used to ask you to post pics all the time...loved that snake.

[ConcinusMan]

Hey ConcinnusMan do you still have him?

Sadly, no. I sold my entire collection back in sept. I had too much to deal with, moved to CA. It was a 1500 mile drive and I already had dogs to deal with. Jason bought him if I remember correctly. If Don Belnap produces any more Iowas from Cariad (not happening this year) I would recommend you snag them up. Some of them turn orange. Julio produces snakes similar to this, only they are blood red. (as adults only)

http://i51.tinypic.com/awqkaa.jpg

[EasternGirl]

That last pic...what kind of garter is that exactly? And who sells those? I now have to have one of those. That might just be the most gorgeous garter I have ever seen!

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I know. Awesome aren't they? Both pictures I provided are T- albino plains. T. radix. ^^^The thing with those though, is you never know if they will color up like that, even if they have the genes for it. If you get an albino red sided (T. s. parietalis) They are red at birth.

Albino Red sided:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4VXrkZe4WmU/TMrGJDw0HHI/AAAAAAAAJxM/ynbhQ6Ym8gw/s1600/Thamnophis+parietalis+(red-sided)+albino.jpg

http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/006/078/03/N000/000/001/127885076995416129667_RedSidedGarterAlbinoFemale01-01.JPG

Scott may have what you're looking for right now. http://www.albinogartersnake.com/available.html

[ProXimuS]

You probably already know about this, but if you plan on housing your snakes together, you can have either males/females of the same species, but you can also keep different species together as long as everyone is the same sex.

btw, my baby eastern is a flame. They look great as babies, but they gain even more color as they get bigger!

Just curious, why do the different species together have to be same sex?

[guidofatherof5]

Cross breeding is bad.

[ProXimuS]

Cross breeding is bad.

Birth defects or you just need to keep them purebred?

[guidofatherof5]

Yes and yes.

[ProXimuS]

Hmm thats too bad, it seems like you could make some really cool crossbreeds with all these beautiful markings. Like mixed breed dogs :D

[guidofatherof5]

When accidental cross breeding has occurred it produced mutts. A watered down version of both snakes.
The individual species and subspecies are beautiful in themselves.
This issue has been discussed many times on the forum to a resounding NO by must members.
Why mess with perfection. I for one never want to see garters go down the same path that corns and balls have gone down.
I am a purest at heart.

[ProXimuS]

Yea I understand where you're coming from. And I agree the purebreds are beautiful in themselves :D

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5930-cross-breeding.html

[ConcinusMan]

To put it not-so-nicely... With crossbreed garters, the outcome is just a squirming pile of ****.

[kibakiba]

Yeah, most don't even come out looking nice, the last pairing came out as muddy little snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

You just can't improve that which is already perfect. :)