Raleigh NC reptile show

[kueluck]

Just wondering if anyone is going to the show this weekend in Raleigh NC Gila Productions Raleigh (http://www.gilaproductions.com/ral/exh.html).

[mikem]

I wish. :(

[guidofatherof5]

Only in spirit.:(

[d_virginiana]

If it weren't for finals I would be :(

[kueluck]

Very sad, very sad indeed. I don't know if I will get another garter or not. If I knew that another female would work with Zena I wouldn't hesitate. But my tank is to small for two and getting another tank is not an option. This is why I originally wanted males so I could fit two in the 29 long. But I do love to look at all the critters, and lets not forget about the accessories.

[Invisible Snake]

Two females can't get along in a 29 long? Or is it just Zena that doesn't like other females?

[kueluck]

I don't think the tank would be big enough for two adult females. And I don't know if she does or does not like other females. Haven't had the opportunity to find out.

[guidofatherof5]

Garters seem to be very tolerant of others(snakes and people).;)

[kueluck]

Soooooooooooo two adult females would be happy in this one tank?

[guidofatherof5]

I don't see why not unless I'm missing something with regards to this post.

[kueluck]

ah, no. I just thought a 30 x 12 x 12 would not be big enough. So it would be okay to put another female in there????

[kibakiba]

I have 2 nearly adult and one adult in a 20 long. They fit fine. One of the near-adults and the adult are northwesterns, which are small... But Snap is going to get pretty huge, and they all share the same hide, which is about the size of my hand and a half. Two females can fit in a 29 long, but it could cause problems if they don't like each other.

[kueluck]

<~~~doing the happy dance.
<~~~checking the fundage.

[kueluck]

The show was a bust, only 2 albino checkered and I'm not a fan of red eyed anything, kinda creeps me out. But I did get some pinkies and some nice grape vines. I was checking on line for the smallest garter snake and it came up with the blue striped garter (Thamnophis sirtalis similis). I think I want one, but I'm not holding my breath on finding one.

[kibakiba]

Smallest garter, as in size? I don't think a t.s. similis is the smallest. Butlers are pretty darn small. Northwesterns are, too. My 1 year old litter is still a lot smaller than a pencil, which is normal. Even my 2 year old, he's almost pencil size.

[d_virginiana]

I think that may have been reversed... I've heard of some pretty large similis before. I thought they were actually some of the biggest. I know people constantly confuse them with Florida blue easterns, and they have a reputation for being on the larger side as well.

Last time I went to a show in Raleigh, the only garter there was an "albino checkers garder". Needless to say I didn't really trust the breeder :rolleyes:

[kueluck]

As for the show the first question is w/c or c/b, then male or female. I turned down an awesome Smooth-sided toad because it was w/c. But it was very tempting.

[kueluck]

I found the info I was looking for. It's from Scott Felzer's site Blue-Striped Garter
Found in a very limited range in Western Florida, blue-striped garters (T. sirtalis similis) occur in Wakulla County South to the Withlacoochee River. Their preferred habitat is marshes and pinewoods of Northwestern Florida. Their diet consists of fish, frogs, toads and rodents.
Coloration varies from sky blue to navy blue to dark blue. The dorsal stripe is either a yellowish golden or tannish color. White speckles are evident throughout the body as well. At birth they don’t show these colors, looking like normal Florida eastern garters. However as they grow, their colors become more distinguishable. This species is often confused with the Florida eastern garter due to some normal easterns having a high degree of blue in their coloration.
In my collection, this species tends to be smaller than other garters. Adult females are typically 24 to 30 inches, and adult males are 16 to 20 inches in length.

The show was a bust, only 2 albino checkered and I'm not a fan of red eyed anything, kinda creeps me out. But I did get some pinkies and some nice grape vines. I was checking on line for the smallest garter snake and it came up with the blue striped garter (Thamnophis sirtalis similis). I think I want one, but I'm not holding my breath on finding one.

[kibakiba]

That is still quite a bit bigger than a northwesten or butler garter.

[kueluck]

Chantel, I don't see either one of those listed on Scott's site. I don't want to have one shipped, I want to be able to pick it up. Just going over the list, this one seems to be the smallest he has.

[kibakiba]

Well, I was just pointing out that similis isn't the actual smallest garter. Most people wont breed northwesterns. They are hard to deal with, and like cooler temperatures.

[guidofatherof5]

I think there was a discussion thread about the smallest garter. I'll see if I can find it.

Found this 2007 thread.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/518-smallest-garters-ribbons.html

[kueluck]

Chantel and Steve, thanks for the info. I really do appreciate it.:D

[EasternGirl]

Gail...I am a little late to this discussion...but I have Cee Cee...my three foot long eastern female in a 30 gallon tank, and I am getting ready to put another large female in with her. Cee Cee has plenty of room in her enclosure, and when Seeley was in there with her, they were fine in there together. I have Seeley in a 29 long...he is two and a half feet long...although he isn't very big in diameter, and I am getting ready to put another male in with him. I have Hermes and Possum...both a foot long...in a 29 long, and I am getting ready to put a third male in with them. You should be fine putting another female in with Zena. Worse comes to worse and you feel like they don't have enough room once they are together...go on Craig's List and find a nice used tank for them that is bigger. :)

To add to the above discussion about small garters...
After seeing how small eastern babies are and talking to a breeder...I would never want to breed easterns. The babies are just so small. Not something I would want to deal with on a regular basis.

[kueluck]

No babies for me. That's why my original plan was to have 2 males, but then this girl came along and after a few hours with her I knew she was NOT going back into the wild. I have the Zilla 30X12X12, but it just doesn't seem big enough. At this point it would be pushing it to get another tank. I may just wait a bit and sell off the other 30X12X12 along with a ten gal and see what happens from there. I can also wait until Petco has the tank sale and get another 40 gal breeder tank. I just don't want Zena to get bored by herself in the tank.