Frozen Rodents?

[Gregavi]

Hi, I'm a newbie to this forum and have a quick question about my garter snake. I have read that one of the preferred foods is frozen/thawed baby mice. I wasn't aware that there was a frozen section in the wild. Why would they prefer frozen/thawed when captive but obviously don't have that choice in the wild? When we were kids, we had many, many snakes (King, Gopher, Racer, Garter) and fed them live rats, mice, lizards, fish, frogs etc. That seemed logical then and still does today. Everything they ate was alive. In fact, I seem to remember them refusing eating something when it was dead. I know the freezing probably kills parasites and such, but it seems like a better diet would be the diet they would get in nature. Just curious.

Thanks in advance.

PS
I will be posting photos of my snake to see if someone can help me sex my pet as to help my 9YO daughter name him/her.

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[infernalis]

To answer your question, keeping pinkies in the freezer is very convenient, you don't have to feed them, they don't make any noise, and whenever you need one, just thaw and serve.

I have also bred and raised mice, and it's a mess, it's hard work, and my snakes don't seem to really prefer a live mouse over a thawed mouse.

final thought, Garter snakes swallow them alive, they do not kill their food like constrictors or venomous do, they just gulp it down alive.

[Invisible Snake]

Hi and welcome to the forum. The main thing about frozen baby mice is that it is extremely convenient for us and it is from what I've read a balanced nutritious meal. In my experience most garters aren't particularly fond of pinkies so I have to scent them with a little fish filet juice.

[Gregavi]

Thanks to all for the replies. I would rather use live food because part of reason to have a snake is to watch what happens in nature. Isn't that why we watch "Animal Planet"?

Could you explain in detail ReptileGeek the scenting with 'fish filet juice'. Like where you get it and how much you use.

Thanks

[chris-uk]

Welcome to the forum.

Frozen/thawed mice have no chance of injuring your snake. As they don't care whether the pinkies are alive or thawed it seems like the safer and therefore best approach.

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family! We use pinkies frozen because of convenience and reduced risk of injury. We have many snakes and buy in bulk.

[infernalis]

Thanks to all for the replies. I would rather use live food because part of reason to have a snake is to watch what happens in nature. Isn't that why we watch "Animal Planet"?

If that's the case, you better dump in some parasites, add a few predators that eat snakes and give yourself that well rounded "natural" experience.

There is nothing "natural" about keeping a wild animal in a cage.

[Invisible Snake]

Hey Gregavi, basically what i do is cut off a small piece of any type of frozen fish filet, place it in a small ziplock bag, let it thaw and once it has thawed completely I just squeeze the fish filet while still in the ziplock bag until it becomes mushy and then I take a thawed pinky and rub its head on the mushy fish filet. Hope this post helped, if you have anymore questions feel free to ask.

Check out the sites caresheet for which fishes are safe to feed garter snakes and I know what you mean by wanting to feed your snakes live food and watching them hunt, I like that too so a few times a month I feed my garters guppies in a water bowl.

[chris-uk]

If you need more convincing that live feeding isn't a good thing take a look at the first post in this thread over on RFUK :
And this is why feeding live is oft frowned upon. - Reptile Forums (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/835517-why-feeding-live-oft-frowned.html)

There's nothing natural about a snake in a tank, and unless it's a huge tank you aren't going to see any natural hunting behaviour, so why would anyone risk injuring their snake? I'd be gutted if anything happened to any of my snakes, and don't know anyone over here that would consider feeding a live rodent - maybe that has something to do with us Europeans having to pay good money for our garters rather than picking one up in the garden?

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/welcome.jpg

[Light of Dae]

If you need more convincing that live feeding isn't a good thing take a look at the first post in this thread over on RFUK :
And this is why feeding live is oft frowned upon. - Reptile Forums (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/835517-why-feeding-live-oft-frowned.html)

There's nothing natural about a snake in a tank, and unless it's a huge tank you aren't going to see any natural hunting behaviour, so why would anyone risk injuring their snake? I'd be gutted if anything happened to any of my snakes, and don't know anyone over here that would consider feeding a live rodent - maybe that has something to do with us Europeans having to pay good money for our garters rather than picking one up in the garden?

I just looked n read the first page of that link... Holy Crap that is a 6 1/2 foot yellow ratsnake!

I agree. Frozen mouse or no mouse. If you want to 'witness' natural hunting behavior you have two options. 1.) Feed a safe live fish like Guppies n Platys. or 2.) Watch Animal Planet. That is what it is for.

A pet is a pet, It shouldn't be allowed to stay wild if wild caught, it would never be happy, in a tank. That is why we tame them, and if they do not adjust we let them go.

[EasternGirl]

In the wild, snakes come across many situations that end up getting them injured or killed. The life span of a garter in the wild is going to be considerably shortened as compared to the life span of a garter in a captive situation, if, and I stress this "if" strongly, if we can give them an optimal living environment...which should be our goal. Our goal in keeping an animal in captivity should be to diminish risks and problems that the animal will run across in the wild. In the wild...a garter will come across live food that will be riddled with parasites, and also, the garter may be attacked and injured while trying to eat live prey. The chances of the garter being attacked and injured by live prey increases if you put live prey in a tank with the garter...an enclosed space...in which the snake has no means to escape. For these reasons, we always feed garters frozen/thawed mice.

[mikem]

Live food can and will injure your snake. Not worth the risk.

[Didymus20X6]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/welcome-lounge/4500d1332817250-just-saying-hi-t9i0px.jpg

[Jeff B]

Thanks to all for the replies. I would rather use live food because part of reason to have a snake is to watch what happens in nature. Isn't that why we watch "Animal Planet"?

No we watch animal planet to laugh at people who think every twig snap or howl is a bigfoot.

[mb90078]

I'm quite sure that many garters would almost never eat a rodent in the wild to begin with. Some exceptions of course, but if you're looking to replicate the wild perfectly, depending on what species you have, probably (or at least possibly) not feeding rodents at all would be the best immitation of wild.

[d_virginiana]

Best explanation I ever heard for this was when we were talking to our vet about why he thought it was a bad idea to give dogs bones, since wild canines ate them all the time. He just deadpanned us and said "No one has ever brought me a wild coyote that choked on a bone. Not that it doesn't happen, it's just that people don't usually spend a lot of time watching wild coyotes".

Well-balanced is a lot better than 'natural' for anything living in a tank. I've got one really old garter that eats chopped pinkies from a dish (garter geriatric diet?). Not natural, but definitely what's best for him. :)


No we watch animal planet to laugh at people who think every twig snap or howl is a bigfoot.

"I do believe there's a squatch in these woods!"
Best. Show. Ever.

[brain]

If that's the case, you better dump in some parasites, add a few predators that eat snakes and give yourself that well rounded "natural" experience.

There is nothing "natural" about keeping a wild animal in a cage.

Grinning, Well pointed Wayne. Love it

[Gregavi]

My local "pet store guy" recommended live feeder goldfish for my garter. I put a few in a shallow dish as he recommended and the snake has not eaten any (or anything) in days. I guess I'll try frozen/thawed pinkies.

[EasternGirl]

Oh dear....please do not listen to "pet store guys" and please do not feed your garter goldfish. Thankfully, you came to our forum...and we are glad that you did. We are not trying to be rude or chase you away so please don't get the wrong idea...some of us just have some jokes about animal planet and pet stores and things like that...we aren't making fun of you. Pet store people never know what they are talking about when it comes to garters...they tell people to feed them crickets and goldfish and all kinds of bad advice that can kill the snake. Please take a look at our caresheet and continue to ask our advice...and we will help you as much as we can. We want your snake to have the best possible care. Here is our caresheet, it lists safe and unsafe fish in reference to feeding your garter: Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[guidofatherof5]

Well said and done Marnie.

[d_virginiana]

Agreed :)

The pet store people know absolutely nothing about the animals they sell. Last time I dealt with them, they sold me a 'Ceratophrys ornata' that grew up to be a Ceratophrys cranwelli :P
Like Marnie said, glad you found this forum :)