Gail's garter - the snake kind silly.

[the_edsta]

Probably just the glottis opening and closing. sometimes it makes a clicking noise but you might just be hearing air flowing through the nostrils? But if I piss off/scare my bigger girls they do something with their mouth where it opens just a crack on the side and they intentionally expel air quickly through that and produces a hiss.


Probably just her breathing through her nostrils... But it is obnoxious. Think darth vader. (Maybe she is an evil half-cyborg? Hadn't considered that line of thinking...)

[ConcinusMan]

If I didn't know any better it sounds like a R.I. their breathing shouldn't sound like that. The only snake I ever had sound like that was very ill and need Baytril treatment to save her life.

Run the snake hard for a few minutes until it's respiration increases. If it begins to open it's mouth to breathe you got big trouble.

Seriously, "obnoxious" "darth Vader" sound when breathing... not good at all.

[the_edsta]

Well -- that was a joke. No Darth Vader. I did think RI at first too -- but It is so sporadic, no other symptoms showing. I don't know. Good idea, though. I'll take her out and give her a workout!

[the_edsta]

Didn't mean to drag this thread off topic... but here is a vid of her breathing. It did get worse when she was pushing hard, but this is after she had calmed down some (I have audio of when she was breathing harder). I can see now that she does slightly open her mouth upon exhale, and then breath in through her nose. (Needs to be turned up a bit to hear it, but it is clear.)

Checkered Garter - Breathing - YouTube (http://youtu.be/4NXdhkwUlnI)

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a glottis click and a short whistle. Have you looked inside the mouth? Might check for an infection around the glottis that is not allowing it to seal properly.
With all that being said it may not be anything at all.
How's her eating, pooping, drinking and tongue flicking?

[the_edsta]

I've only had her for a week, so I'm not sure about all her habits etc, but her appetite is excellent, her tongue is good. Water is hard to tell... there was some poop but I didn't examine it close enough. I will pay more attention to the forthcoming batch, though.

[ConcinusMan]

Hey it kind of does sound like Darth Vader. I'm with Steve, it may be nothing but worth taking a look because it could be something. I would say if this has remained unchanged for months, mouth is pink and not pale/gray and sticky then its probably nothing.

[kueluck]

ummm, guys...........can I have my thread back please. :rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdgXnYE6MrxuQQwEHnF4Y8yBMZFP-CsEPYidHrR5ly8JK5jqS8

[the_edsta]

ummm, guys...........can I have my thread back please. :rolleyes:

Sorry... but I did pre-emptively apologize. That should count for something. The best way to change the subject, though, is to... change the subject!

[kueluck]

Well then I shall. My little Sadie may not be the brightest colored, or uniquely marked, biggest or smallest, but she is one of the sweetest I've come across. She just finished her shed 2 days ago, which leads to my question, or should I say observation.
9639
It seems that when one of my girls gets ready to shed, the other start the process within a month. Almost like when women who live together "cycle" together. And I'm not talkin' about bicycles either. Has anyone noticed this also?? OK guys, jump on THIS one. :D ;)

[chris-uk]

Well then I shall. My little Sadie may not be the brightest colored, or uniquely marked, biggest or smallest, but she is one of the sweetest I've come across. She just finished her shed 2 days ago, which leads to my question, or should I say observation.
9639
It seems that when one of my girls gets ready to shed, the other start the process within a month. Almost like when women who live together "cycle" together. And I'm not talkin' about bicycles either. Has anyone noticed this also?? OK guys, jump on THIS one. :D ;)

Sounds like you have something to contribute to the thread that d_virginiana started:
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/12798-hormonal-component-shedding.html

[kueluck]

And today Mona gave me a 32 inch one piece shed. These girls are amazing and I wouldn't give any of them up.
9640

[guidofatherof5]

Big beautiful girl.

[gibble888]

Wow! She is a dandy!

[kueluck]

She makes Sadie look so small, and they are only a few weeks different in age. So either Mona is gonna be a big girl, or Sadie is a little one.

[ConcinusMan]

It seems that when one of my girls gets ready to shed, the other start the process within a month. Almost like when women who live together "cycle" together.

Yes they do seem to all shed very close together and/or go into shed near the same time. But they do that even if they aren't housed together and I thought maybe it's because everyone gets fed on the same schedule. If any don't eat, too bad they can wait until next time. Almost all my big females had their pre-birthing shed at nearly the same time but they also gave birth around the same time in July. Now they are all in shed again. The only one that isn't in shed also didn't give birth until about 2 weeks ago.

When the wild ones first emerge they all go into shed and all shed within a week of each other. Hormonal? Plausible but I don't think so. More like all of them have roughly the same conditions influencing their shed cycles and I think it happens in captivity too. Same feeding, temps, growth rate etc = similar shed cycle.

[kueluck]

All is well in the Hill House and here are a few updated pics on Sadie, Mona & Jewels.
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Also I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of Garters at Repticon in Raleigh this past weekend. Wandering, Concinnus (I think, they had red heads) Normal Eastern, Red Sided, Albino Checkered and one guy had a container filled with babies, a cross between a Checkered and Florida Blue, but they all looked like normal Easterns. It was a tub-o-cuties, but not tempting enough. Plus the show was not the typical overrun of Boas & Pythons. I also noticed lots of Gopher & Rat snakes this time. It was a good show but nothing snake wise came home with me.

[guidofatherof5]

Looking good.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Agreed!
looking good.

[kueluck]

I added a small water dish that the girls use for drinking since they can't fit into it and use it as a potty. I just hate it when I get up in the morning and see poop or pee in it and think they might have drank from that. ewwww
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Jewels just hanging out under the fake fern leaves. I rearranged their home today which always make for a fun time for them.
9952

[ConcinusMan]

It's what you don't see in the water that's bad. A little fresh poo in the drinking water is no biggie. You should clean it as soon as you see it of course but it won't hurt 'em if they've drank out of it.

It's important to not just change water frequently, but to scrub and sanitize the dish. Even if water looks clean it only takes a few days for a slimy film (run your finger on the bottom of the dish, because you cannot see it) to develop on the dish. This is a bacteria colony and it's bad for any animal to be drinking from that even if the water looks clean. Water from your toilet is cleaner than water from a slimy dish.

[kueluck]

The water, food & soaking dish are scrubbed every morning. The first 45 min of each day are spent cleaning water and food containers for the snakes, toads & frogs. And the thought of them drinking poo water :eek: Not on my watch!! ;)

[ConcinusMan]

They don't usually anyway. After changing water, it's drink, poo in the water, then slither off into a corner and snicker at their keeper. lol. A small dish doesn't stop them either, at least not in my experience. They'll get just their tail end in there and do it. :cool:

[kueluck]

1003310034

I don' t know if it's because of her color that makes the white so pronounced, but is this normal? When she sheds there's always complete eye caps, but I just want to make sure.

[guidofatherof5]

Not sure if it's too abnormal and the color contrast probably makes it more pronounced.
Beautiful snake.

[kueluck]

Sometimes it's just more pronounced than others, this was one of those times & since I'm so overprotective I get a little panicked when something seems off.

[mikem]

A couple of my females have this as well. One's cb and the other is wc. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

[kueluck]

Mike, I was hoping you would chime in since we both got ours at the Myrtle show from Scott. I didn't think it was anything to worry about, but I really wanted some confirmation on this. One can never be to sure when it comes to the health & well-being of these little wonders.

[mikem]

I can understand that! I've been calling this look the "chubby cheeks", I wonder if it has something to do with diet and hydration...

[kueluck]

If that is the case, why don't Jewels & Sadie have the same look? But Mona is one heck of an eater. She can down a whole worm faster than I can get another one on the tongs.

[slipknot711]

i love mona. id love a melanistic. so gorgeous

[mikem]

If that is the case, why don't Jewels & Sadie have the same look? But Mona is one heck of an eater. She can down a whole worm faster than I can get another one on the tongs.

Honestly, I don't know, just thinking out loud (through my fingers! ;))

[kueluck]

Personality wise she is the friendliest. Slide open the door and she's the first one to greet me, then up my arm and around my neck. For me the Red Sided (thamnophis sirtalis parietalis) is the prettiest. I had a baby that escaped never to be found. Cleo was absolutely beautiful. :(
i love mona. id love a melanistic. so gorgeous

[kueluck]

One can never have to much cork bark. At least that's what the girls told me.
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[slipknot711]

im still in love with mona btw

[kueluck]

snake head, snake head, rolly polly snake head.........
10107

After making her hang out for an hour with me this was all she was exposing to me. Ungrateful brat.

[ConcinusMan]

1003310034

I don' t know if it's because of her color that makes the white so pronounced, but is this normal? When she sheds there's always complete eye caps, but I just want to make sure.

That ring around the eye (as if the eye was too small for the socket) is a mystery to me too. Some people's snakes all seem to have it while mine rarely do and it's usually just my very old snakes. I send snakes to steve and in a short period of time, they all have it while their siblings that stay with me, don't get it. I have no idea what causes it but I can tell you it's nothing to worry about. I rarely or almost never see it in wild snakes. I can only conclude it has something to do with the environment or diet. Your "ring" is only white because that's what color the skin happens to be.

See? this one has it too. Like I said, some people's snakes all seem to have it. Or at least most of their snakes.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/general-talk/10107d1388369162-gails-garter-snake-kind-silly-cimg1015.jpg

Now pay attention when I post pics. You'll never see that in any of my snakes. But watch steve's pics. The majority, if not all, of his concinnus' have it and he got them from me. And yet, none of mine have that.

[kueluck]

That's very interesting that none of yours have this. Makes me wonder if there is something missing in their diet then.

[kueluck]

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The girls just enjoying their home after a cleaning.

[guidofatherof5]

Looking good.

[kueluck]

Thanks Steve. They are so easy to take care of and I am blessed with 3 very healthy and friendly girls.

[ConcinusMan]

That's very interesting that none of yours have this. Makes me wonder if there is something missing in their diet then.

I don't think so. I also don't think them having that "eye ring" or not having it, is of any consequence to, or indication of their overall health or dietary/nutritional intake. In order to draw that conclusion we would have to keep 2 groups of snakes in exactly the same conditions except each group would have different diets. All I know is that I never see that ring/gap around their eye in the wild, and rarely if ever in my captive snakes, while almost all the snakes kept by some people, seem to have it. Beyond that, one can only speculate as to why or if it's significant or not. Maybe it has to do with growth rate?? I know that Steve's concinnus' grew at an astounding rate for 2 years and reached huge sizes quite a bit faster than mine or wild ones normally would but can't say if that makes the ring or not. It's a mystery to me. I really wouldn't worry too much about it if they have it not. It's just interesting that some people's snakes tend to all have it while in my observations it's not something that the snakes normally would have in the wild or in my captives over 25-30 years of keeping them.

[snakeman13]

could be as simple as something in the local water.

[chris-uk]

I'd go with rate of growth. If the eye grows slower than the body as a whole you could start seeing this sort of ring. I've not noticed it on any of mine, but I've not been looking, and I have some that are growing like weeds and others that are slower eaters and growing slower - I'll have a look and if I see "eye rings" it will be interesting to see if there is any correlation.

[kueluck]

Chris, interesting point, curious to see what you come up with. Snakeman13, I would rule out local water since mine don't get "local" water, but thanks for in input.

[kueluck]

This morning when I looked into their home I went for the poop container thinking it was just a big ol' snake turd.
10185


Then the head came out, Mona......still a turd though.
10186

[ConcinusMan]

I'd go with rate of growth. If the eye grows slower than the body as a whole you could start seeing this sort of ring. I've not noticed it on any of mine, but I've not been looking, and I have some that are growing like weeds and others that are slower eaters and growing slower - I'll have a look and if I see "eye rings" it will be interesting to see if there is any correlation.

I have noticed that it seems more prevalent with keepers who feed them a lot of rodents and/or grow them big really fast instead of a more natural, slower rate.

[kueluck]

When they were babies I feed them a little every day, then after 1 year this is there feeding schedule - pinkies, worms, fish, worms, pinkies worms, etc etc. They get three pieces of whatever I'm feeding about every 4-5 days or until everyone has pooped out their last meal. The portions are enough to create a slight bulge in the belly.

[kueluck]

This has nothing to do with snakes but I thought it was utterly amazing. No comments please, just enjoy.
Choirs sing Star Spangled Banner over 18 floors of hotel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfVKtXM-JtQ)

[kueluck]

1021010211
Sadies closeup and Jewel's and her just hanging out on the log.

[guidofatherof5]

Sadie is beautiful.

[kueluck]

Thanks Steve. She is a cutie but she's so small compared to Mona, almost half the size and only one month younger.
Sadie is beautiful.

[kueluck]

I've been blessed with 3 very healthy & friendly snakes and hate it when something is off. Mona has one scales that is kinda "loose". She had a perfect shed 2 weeks ago so I'm not sure if maybe she caught this on a piece of cork bark or one of the grapevine branches. It doesn't seem to bother her, and when I was checking it out she didn't seem to mind either. Just checking to see if I should do anything or just leave it alone until her next shed.
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[guidofatherof5]

Any chance it's just a retained shed scale? Is there skin under it or a scale?

[ConcinusMan]

That's what it looks like to me. Old skin didn't come off and is now likely fused. don't attempt to remove it. Since it's not on the eye cap or large portions of the body it's not an emergency at this time. Next shed keep an eye on that area, usually it comes off next shed. If it doesn't the worst that could happen is the loss of that one scale. No biggie.

[kueluck]

I was thinking that, but on her last shed a few weeks ago there was nothing missing from the shed. I actually held it while she crawled out of it. Plus once they shed I use a magnifying glass and check out their whole body, remember I only have 3 snakes so it's not a major upkeep for me. I'm not really "worried" but more curious as to a "loose" partial scale, it's not even the whole scale.

Steve, I really can't tell if there is skin under it or not. It's attached yet sounds crinkly when you touch it.

[guidofatherof5]

I was thinking that, but on her last shed a few weeks ago there was nothing missing from the shed. I actually held it while she crawled out of it. Plus once they shed I use a magnifying glass and check out their whole body, remember I only have 3 snakes so it's not a major upkeep for me. I'm not really "worried" but more curious as to a "loose" partial scale, it's not even the whole scale.

Steve, I really can't tell if there is skin under it or not. It's attached yet sounds crinkly when you touch it.

Is it loose? Do any of the corners come up? If it were an actual scale that was loose it would have caused some injury as it came off.
It sounds more like a retained scale to me. Having a complete shed last time makes this a little strange.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, I told you what it is and it comes from 30 years of experience. it's fairly common and not really a major concern. It will likely come off next shed.

[kueluck]

Today I failed and gave into temptation. THANKS SHAWN!!!! No really, thanks for having the female similis babies.
Meet Fiona. Ate like a champ and is settling into her new home. No more, this is def my last one.
108121081310814
When you get a chance to check your records, please send me the birth date.

[guidofatherof5]

Today I failed and gave into temptation. THANKS SHAWN!!!! No really, thanks for having the female similis babies.
Meet Fiona. Ate like a champ and is settling into her new home. No more, this is def my last one.
108121081310814
When you get a chance to check your records, please send me the birth date.


Yeah.:D

[mikem]

yea, no more...except maybe a Santa Cruz, right?! ;)

[kueluck]

Or maybe a California Red Sided......................NONONO...............I would have to build another setup and there's not more room in the house.

[chris-uk]

Oh come on, who are you kidding? You'd have to give in to an infernalis...

Saying that, I've also reached my limit (at 16 the house IS full). Something we joke about on the forum is how there's always "just one more". Of course, there is always just one more, although we should all know how many we can keep well.

[kueluck]

This is so true Chris. The part about "how many we can keep well". I can always sell the furniture, get rid of the tv and sound system to make room, but all my critters, which includes cats, toads, frogs and snakes are my buddies and if I can't give them the personal time they deserve then for me it's not worth it. Plus there's the added expense of food and supplies. Right now I'm happy with the 4, and I'll be much happier when Fiona is grown. The baby stage is cute, but I prefer adults. I can wrap my adults around my neck and go out for a long walk in the neighborhood, can't do that with the littles ones.

[kueluck]

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A classic. Baby on a sheep skin rug.

[guidofatherof5]

Great photo. No, your snakes aren't spoiled. Just loved ;)

[kueluck]

Pretty much. Each critter in my care is talked to and touch each day, even if it's just a "hey (fill in the name)".
Great photo. No, your snakes aren't spoiled. Just loved ;)

[kueluck]

10867
Fiona adjusting to life in the Hill House. No more musking, but still a little flighty. Slow on eating the pinkie parts and tilapia, but LOVES the worms. Mona, Sadie and Jewels love having a baby in the house since they get the leftovers.

[guidofatherof5]

All that is missing is a snowman in that winter wonderland. :D

[kueluck]

Actually I think what is missing is one of the baby plains. She's all alone and will be until she's big enough to move in with the girls. Poor Fi.

[kueluck]

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I love craigslist. Found an Exo Terra 24x18x18 for $40.00. Perfect size for Fiona until she's big enough to move in with the girls. After a good disinfectant cleaning and taping up the electrical holes I moved her in with places to climb, hide and poop all over. It was tilapia for breakfast which I very happy to say that she has one VERY healthy appetite.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

She is looking good Gail! Just be careful with those Exo Terra cages I have heard of babies escaping from them where the doors meet.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

She'll come around! She's just used to me giving her worms. All of my leftover babies are on pinky parts now!
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Fiona adjusting to life in the Hill House. No more musking, but still a little flighty. Slow on eating the pinkie parts and tilapia, but LOVES the worms. Mona, Sadie and Jewels love having a baby in the house since they get the leftovers.

[kueluck]

Trust me, I went over this and checked every possible opening. The larger Exo Terras have bigger gaps, this one has a real tight fit. Also she does eat pinkie parts also, I just alternate food items between pinkies, tilapia & worms.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Great! I know she is in good hands with you!
trust me, i went over this and checked every possible opening. The larger exo terras have bigger gaps, this one has a real tight fit. Also she does eat pinkie parts also, i just alternate food items between pinkies, tilapia & worms.

[kueluck]

This week Sadie turned 2 and Fiona shed again with no problems. I'm so thankful that my posts don't start with "help" and that all four girls seem healthy and happy. Well Fiona not so happy. She still has that "it's gonna eat me" thing when I put my hands in her home. Mona was the same way, so my hope is that once she's comfortable in her surroundings she'll be as lovable as Mona is. And Jewels, what can I say. If I don't give her food about every 3 days, she tears into me everytime I go into the cage, and she's there to meet me at the door.
1102711031110281102911030

[kueluck]

1103211033 Since only 5 pics allowed per post, these are two of Fiona peaking at the hand monster that's gonna eat her.

[guidofatherof5]

Good stuff.

[snipstedy]

Is that a solid black Garter? I was herping today and came accross a black snake but wasn't sure what it was so I took a pick from a safe distance (which wasn't really worth it )..anyway very nice snake.

[kueluck]

Solid black, no. She has a white/cream colored chin. Mona is my (T.S. sirtalis) Melanistic and super friendly. Anyone can handle her with no problems.
Is that a solid black Garter? I was herping today and came accross a black snake but wasn't sure what it was so I took a pick from a safe distance (which wasn't really worth it )..anyway very nice snake.

[Happy Snake]

Zena looks lovely! And she's lucky to have a great home. :)

[kueluck]

Thank you, but she passed away some time back. Not sure why, but the signs showed she just passed away in her sleep peacefully. At least that is my hope since there was no way to tell how old she was. She was my first snake ever and the sweetest thing.
Zena looks lovely! And she's lucky to have a great home. :)

[kueluck]

11112
Fiona is growing and becoming a beauty. Still a little flighty at times, but has really calmed down. All her feeding is done while she sits in my hand.

[kueluck]

I know it's been forever since I've posted here, but life has been super busy and my girls are so healthy with no issues......................until this morning

I found this in the cage this morning. 12044 Only one this could come from would be Jewels. I've had her since late in the year 2012, I got her from a guy that use to breed her, but then decided to get out of it so he sold her to me saying she was either 4 or 5 years old at the time of purchase. She refused food at the last feeding, but since she's not skinny by any means I wasn't concerned about it and was going to try again this weekend. The little thing seems perfectly formed. Sad, very sad.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

That look's like an eastern weird. Hey Gail have any new pics of Fiona?

[kueluck]

I'll post some when I get home tonite. It really caught me by surprise since she doesn't even look gravid, but then all of mine a little on the chunky side.

[kueluck]

Up dated Fiona shots. She is NOT one to sit still for photos, but you can see she is blueing up nicely.
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[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful.

[kueluck]

Fiona will be one year old the end of the month, hard to believe it's been that long. As for Jewel's, nothing else, no more babies. I was hoping to see if this has happened to others.

[Albert Clark]

What wonderful memories in this thread. Thank you Gail for all the highs and lows. You have really been a inspiration to so many.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Agreed!
beautiful.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Glad fiona is doing great!
fiona will be one year old the end of the month, hard to believe it's been that long. As for jewel's, nothing else, no more babies. I was hoping to see if this has happened to others.

[kueluck]

She's the most flighty one, but she's not aggressive unless you smell like dinner, then it's game on. Once I do have her in my hands it just takes a little bit to calm her down.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

She's beautiful!
she's the most flighty one, but she's not aggressive unless you smell like dinner, then it's game on. Once i do have her in my hands it just takes a little bit to calm her down.

[kueluck]

Well she is the one you suggested when I bought her from you almost a year ago. You produced her, I'm just her keeper.

Also Jewels laid 12 jellies yesterday, and now she is back to eating again.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad she's back eating. Sorry to hear about the jellies.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I'm just glad she is in good hands! I hate that about Jewels although I know you wouldn't won't to deal with a bunch of babies. The strange part is the stillborn looked like an eastern baby. This seems strange, but maybe it's cause it wasn't developed all the way, who knows?
Well she is the one you suggested when I bought her from you almost a year ago. You produced her, I'm just her keeper.

Also Jewels laid 12 jellies yesterday, and now she is back to eating again.

[kueluck]

1209812099121001210212103

Cage, Mona (7-3-12), Sadie(8-8-12), Fiona(5-26-14), Jewels(6-7 yrs old)
Due to financial issues I can longer tend to the four that I have so I need to re-home them. I use the word re-home instead of sell because I do not see them as product, but as pets, family members, friends. I need the whole kit-n-caboodle to go as one. Their home w/stand measures 39.5” high x 48” long x 25.5” wide. It's built well by my own two hands. It's furniture quality and we use it as a TV stand. It holds our 53” flat screen with no issues. What does the cage have?

Long life LED light, exhaust fan, 4 vent holes, sliding glass doors, heat lamp (on the top outside), glass bottom area for UTH, Hydrofarm thermostat, huge water dish, small water dish, lots of cork bark, hammock, vines with silk plants, extra red lights for heat. I also have a shed box and a plastic bin to hold them when feeding, tongs, gloves, towels.......... I have everything you would need, you just need to get food, water & supplements.

All of the girls are friendly. Mona will come out of the cage just to be held and carried around. Jewels enjoys just hanging around your neck while doing chores or just watching TV. Sadie & Fiona are not ones to just lay in your lap, but they are not biters either. Not unless you taste like food.

The whole set up with the four girls is $1,000.00. This sounds steep, but once you see the quality of the set up, the personality of the girls you'll agree this is more than fair.

[Albert Clark]

Wow, sorry to hear that. We have to do what we have to. I wish I was closer to you but I am up here in N.Y. Good luck with the rehoming though.

[kueluck]

For the NC locals only. I'm going to rehome Jewels & Sadie. They are both healthy and in great shape, I just have to cut way back since my hours at work have been cut back and now they are dropping health insurance so I'll be putting out a chunk of $$ for that. Since I "know" most of you and you most likely know garters there is no fee for them. FYI, I'll be at the Repticon show this weekend in Raleigh. Jewels is approx 6-7 years, Sadie will be 3 yrs on 8-8-15.

[kueluck]

Does anyone know a Jason Caudil? He is inquiring about my girls.

[kueluck]

I need to find a new home for Jewels and Sadie and the folks that are inquiring through the craiglist post, well I really don't trust them. I'm not looking for a re-homing fee, just someone to care for them the way they deserve. If anyone that's been following this thread, or knows of someone who is trustworthy PM me please.

[kueluck]

128201282112822
Because of financial issues. I need to sell the two girls and their home.

Their home w/stand measures 39.5” high x 48” long x 25.5” wide. It's built well by my own two hands our of aspen wood. It's furniture quality and we use it as a TV stand. It holds our 53” flat screen with no issues. What does the cage have?

Long life LED light, exhaust fan, 4 vent holes, sliding glass doors, heat lamp (on the top outside), glass bottom area for UTH, Hydrofarm thermostat, huge water dish, small water dish, lots of cork bark, hammock, vines with silk plants, extra red lights for heat & any pinkies I might have. I have everything you would need, you just need to get food, water & supplements.

The two girls are friendly. Mona (melanistic came from Scott Felzer) will come out of the cage just to be held and carried around. Fiona (florida blue) is a bit more shy, but warms up quickly. Neither are bitters unless you taste like food.

The whole set up with the 2 girls is $8000.00. This sounds steep, but once you see the quality of the set up, the personality of the girls you'll agree this is more than fair.

[kueluck]

LOL, okay so I added an x-tra zero. Thanks Shawn for catching that. Though the cage IS worth is but I'm asking $800 but I'm up for offers also.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Okay wow, I was really wondering what tech you had hidden away in that viv >< If I had the money and was nearby I would adopt them in a heartbeat. GL finding them a good home.

[kueluck]

I'm selling:
Mona my melanistic eastern for $60.00 (she's one of Scott Felzer's) born 7-16-2012. Real sweetie, non bitter likes to hang out around your neck.
Fiona my florida blue for $30.00 (came from BLUESIRTALIS) born 5-26-14. Another sweetie, non bitter. Not so much for hanging out around the neck, but doesn't mind being held and rubbed.
I won't ship, and I'm located in NC. Within reason I will drive them if needed.

[kueluck]

Make that BITER, neither one of them are bitter, at least I hope not.

I'm selling:
Mona my melanistic eastern for $60.00 (she's one of Scott Felzer's) born 7-16-2012. Real sweetie, non bitter likes to hang out around your neck.
Fiona my florida blue for $30.00 (came from BLUESIRTALIS) born 5-26-14. Another sweetie, non bitter. Not so much for hanging out around the neck, but doesn't mind being held and rubbed.
I won't ship, and I'm located in NC. Within reason I will drive them if needed.

[Tommytradix]

I'm selling:
Mona my melanistic eastern for $60.00 (she's one of Scott Felzer's) born 7-16-2012. Real sweetie, non bitter likes to hang out around your neck.
Fiona my florida blue for $30.00 (came from BLUESIRTALIS) born 5-26-14. Another sweetie, non bitter. Not so much for hanging out around the neck, but doesn't mind being held and rubbed.
I won't ship, and I'm located in NC. Within reason I will drive them if needed.
sucks you wont ship :(

[kueluck]

Sorry, but I know nothing about shipping live animals, plus I would want to meet the person that will be caring for them.

[Tommytradix]

Sorry, but I know nothing about shipping live animals, plus I would want to meet the person that will be caring for them.
ok thanks for your reply. it might be tuff trying to sell them local. have you tried facebook? i admin a couple garter groups and classifieds

[kueluck]

Thanks, I'll try that route also.

[kueluck]

Mona has been sold.

[Tommytradix]

Mona has been sold.
did facebook help?

[kueluck]

Yup. Glenn has a friend here in NC that is driving up to MI today. According to his friend that picked her up said she'll be in great hands. That's the most important thing to me since she is such a sweetie. Now if I just need to find as good a home for Fiona.

[Tommytradix]

try other groups on fb like colubrid classifieds, garter snakes, thamnophis and thamnophis classifieds