Regurged pinkies

[chris-uk]

The female radix I have seems to like pinkies and not fish. However, she has regurgitated pinkies a couple of times. First time was last week when she was in the the RUB on paper towels, and I think I spotted it shortly after she brought it up and removed it.
I've just found two pinkies that have obviously been regurgitated in the last hour or two (I had her out a couple of hours ago and they weren't in the viv then). She ate two whole pinkies on Saturday afternoon. The odd thing is that it looks like this isn't the first time these have been brought up, one of the pinkies had dried a bit at some point, making me think it had been regurgitated then re-eaten after it had been out for a bit. The other strange thing about that pinky is that the head was hollow, like the brain and skull had been digested. The other thing that made me think they'd been regurgitated, re-eaten, and regurgitated again is that there were bits of substrate (aspen) on them that looked like they'd been pressed in hard and discoloured.

Couple of things:
- is the skin the last thing digested?
- the pinkies have been in her for 3 days, should they be so intact still?
- is repeated regurgitation a cause for concern? I'm aware it can be a sign of an impaction, but I assume there are plenty of other causes.

My plan is currently -
I'll try her on fish again tomorrow, if she doesn't take the fish I'll leave her for a week or so before trying her again. I'll only try her on pinky again if she refuses fish a couple of times, and if I do it will be a single pinky and I'll probably cut it open a little in the hope that it helps her digest it.

[guidofatherof5]

I would be concerned about repeated regurgitation and
think that 24 hours in a snakes stomach acids should be enough to turn the pinky into soup.
I would also think the skin is the first thing digested. First to come into contact with the stomach acids.

[EasternGirl]

Yes, I would be concerned if she was regurgitating food repeatedly. Something sounds odd. A call to the vet might be in order. Is she pooping normally...any signs of swelling around the stomach or vent area?

[guidofatherof5]

Is it only pinkies? How does she handle worms/fish?

[chris-uk]

She's refusing to eat fish, so I don't know if she will do better with that.
My thoughts were also that the pinkies shouldn't be so intact after a couple of days inside. I suppose it's possible if she regurgitated and re-ate that the first regurgitation was somewhere in the viv that I couldn't see, and that they weren't actually in the stomach for that long.
She's still passing jellies, there was another one yesterday. There's not any obvious sign of swelling anywhere, and I don't feel any lumps in her.

[gregmonsta]

It is a bit strange.

The fact she is passing jellies will have her under some stress so that is something to think about. Whenever I've had a regurged pinky it was usually within 24-48 hours and, although they are very mushy, the shape is still there. When it has happened to me it was usually just a case of the snake over-eating. I see it more often in boys and have only seen it once or twice in gravid females.

Another thing to thing about could be that her recent treatments affected the bacterial balance in her gut flora.

[harpercat]

Very interesting comment from Gregmonsta there re male snakes being more likely to overeat and thenregurgitate. This has happened to two of my young rat snakes and a young corn in the past fortnight after no previous problems with feeding. All are males and in all three cases I'd put it doen to the snake having eaten one mouse too many. In one case it managed to regurgitate one while keeping thwo down. Thinking about when I have seen this over the years, I'd have to agree that, while it's been mercifully rare, when it has occurred it's been predominantly males that have been affected.

[Selkielass]

Abby has thrown up after gorging. My snakes will overdo the pinkies if they have opportunity.
I have found partially digested pinks that were just legs and some body skin. Not sure what end they came out of & it didn't. Repeat.
Perhaps. Wood chips caused re- regurgitation after reinjestion.

[chris-uk]

It could have been a case of overeating, I'll try feeding her a single pinky if she doesn't take the fish later today.

[d_virginiana]

The one time my male regurgitated a pinkie (due to being contaminated from coming into contact with my frog, not a mistake I'll be making again) it was less than a day after eating it and it was pretty gross looking... Of course, he did regurgitate into his water dish so that may have made it look more digested than it really was :eek:

I don't know a lot about snake anatomy, but in some animals there can be abnormalities near the bottom of the esophagus that allow food to sit there without being in the stomach, but without causing continuous gagging either. I doubt that could hold two whole pinkies in a garter snake though... Regardless, cutting up the pinkies like you mentioned would probably be a good idea. Little pieces are easier to digest, and it can't hurt anything.

[candoia aspera]

It could have been a case of overeating, I'll try feeding her a single pinky if she doesn't take the fish later today.

Have you tried replenishing it's electrolytes before trying to feed it again? It might do the trick.

[chris-uk]

Have you tried replenishing it's electrolytes before trying to feed it again? It might do the trick.

How would you suggest doing this?

[candoia aspera]

How would you suggest doing this?

a good old poweraid bath, dilute the poweraid to about 10 parts water to 1 part poweraid and let it have a nice drink and swim. poweraid is packed with electrolytes. they tend to like the blue one though :o)

[chris-uk]

I thought you were suggesting Poweraid. I've read about giving snakes Poweraid, but never done it myself.

[Invisible Snake]

ReptiSafe (http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=181&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=1&SearchContext=YTo3OntzOjg6IlNlYXJjaElEIjtzOjE6IjEi O3M6MTA6IkRhdGFiYXNlSUQiO3M6MToiMiI7czo3OiJLZXl3b3 JkIjtzOjIwOiJNZWRpY2F0aW9ucy9DbGVhbmVycyI7czoxNToi UHJvZHVjdENhdGVnb3J5IjtzOjIwOiJNZWRpY2F0aW9ucy9DbG VhbmVycyI7czo3OiJIZWFkaW5nIjtzOjk6IlRlcnJhcml1bSI7 czo4OiJTZWFyY2hfeCI7czoxOiIwIjtzOjg6IlNlYXJjaF95Ij tzOjE6IjAiO30=)

I add this to my snakes water bowls, it also has electrolytes.

[candoia aspera]

ReptiSafe (http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=181&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=1&SearchContext=YTo3OntzOjg6IlNlYXJjaElEIjtzOjE6IjEi O3M6MTA6IkRhdGFiYXNlSUQiO3M6MToiMiI7czo3OiJLZXl3b3 JkIjtzOjIwOiJNZWRpY2F0aW9ucy9DbGVhbmVycyI7czoxNToi UHJvZHVjdENhdGVnb3J5IjtzOjIwOiJNZWRpY2F0aW9ucy9DbG VhbmVycyI7czo3OiJIZWFkaW5nIjtzOjk6IlRlcnJhcml1bSI7 czo4OiJTZWFyY2hfeCI7czoxOiIwIjtzOjg6IlNlYXJjaF95Ij tzOjE6IjAiO30=)

I add this to my snakes water bowls, it also has electrolytes.

The beauty of poweraid baths is whatever poweraid you don't use you can drink lol

[chris-uk]

ReptiSafe (http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=181&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=1&SearchContext=YTo3OntzOjg6IlNlYXJjaElEIjtzOjE6IjEi O3M6MTA6IkRhdGFiYXNlSUQiO3M6MToiMiI7czo3OiJLZXl3b3 JkIjtzOjIwOiJNZWRpY2F0aW9ucy9DbGVhbmVycyI7czoxNToi UHJvZHVjdENhdGVnb3J5IjtzOjIwOiJNZWRpY2F0aW9ucy9DbG VhbmVycyI7czo3OiJIZWFkaW5nIjtzOjk6IlRlcnJhcml1bSI7 czo4OiJTZWFyY2hfeCI7czoxOiIwIjtzOjg6IlNlYXJjaF95Ij tzOjE6IjAiO30=)

I add this to my snakes water bowls, it also has electrolytes.

Similar to the water conditioner I use for my fish, although that doesn't have electrolytes. Poweraid sounds like a reasonable option for a quick fix.

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee will definitely overeat if I let her....the girl has been known to knock back five small pinks in a feeding. I have to make sure to cut her off before she overeats. I have never seen her regurgitate food though...only water and mucous. Something odd is definitely going on with the whole partially digested pinky thing, Chris. Greg's thoughts about the gut flora are worth considering. I would still consider calling the vet...this is a very odd situation. Please keep us posted.

[Eight]

Poweraid is fantastic for rehydrating snakes. I think they should add a 'for snakes' slogan on the side of the bottle. The only thing in regards to the pink not being that digested after 3 days would be if your snake spent the majority of its time in the cool end of the enclosure after taking the meal as that could slow the digestive process maybe. Thats a stab in the dark though. I hope all gets well soon though.

[EasternGirl]

That's an interesting theory....about spending time in the cool end and slowing the digestive process.

[Selkielass]

Is Poweraide pretty much the same stuff as Gatorade? A sports drink?

I'd never have thought of this on my own... brilliant.
This should be added to the first aid/ snake medicine cabinet threads.
(With a note to avoid sugar free/artificially sweetened variants.)

[candoia aspera]

Is Poweraide pretty much the same stuff as Gatorade? A sports drink?

I'd never have thought of this on my own... brilliant.
This should be added to the first aid/ snake medicine cabinet threads.
(With a note to avoid sugar free/artificially sweetened variants.)

Gatorade would be perfect, had some of that when i went to Vegas and it very similar if not exactly the same as poweraid.

[chris-uk]

That's an interesting theory....about spending time in the cool end and slowing the digestive process.

Interesting theory, but not correct. Adora spends nearly all her time in the warm hide.

[Eight]

Just an idea. It just seems so weird. Again I hope everything works out.