Getting off Pinks

[stevenrudge]

Hurray!its just taken me six months,Yeah SIX MONTHS,to get some Black Eastern Garters off a pure pinky diet,back onto a balanced fish based diet.
l honestly thought l was going to fail,
When l bought them just as l was leaving the seller informed me that he had (transfured) them over to a pinky diet,had l known this before l would not have bought them.
Back at base l put normal food in--nothing touched
Put pinkies in ate the lot
Tried pinkies with fish,only ate the pinks
l kept trying the pinky fish combo--would only eat the pinks
Back in March l thought sod-it they can go hungry
l've left them alone with no food for about four weeks feeding the rest of my garters in the same rack around them as normal
Put in fish only today and bingo they ate all the fish
sorted

[Invisible Snake]

Congratulations. I mostly feed my garters pinkies and live guppies. Hey may I ask why you wanted to get them off pinkies?

[katach]

Some keepers prefer to feed what they would normally eat in the wild. Pinkies are not a normal food for them. Pinkies are still very balanced in nutrition, but as long as you understand the varied diet of what they would eat in the wild they still get the nutrition they need. Hope that helps.

[BUSHSNAKE]

a true varied diet would include rodents, thamnophis are very oportunistic...if they are available in their habitat then they are eating them...what really confuses me is when i find Thamnophis in sand prairies,must be taking down rodents and possibly even lizards

[chris-uk]

Good work. I may be looking at a similar process, the radix I got from John seems to prefer pinkies and refuses fish (so far).

Right now I'd rather she was eating anything as she's needs the nutrition to help her skin heal, so I won't try hard to gets her to take fish until I'm happy that she's healed. I was saying to the wife today after Adora took pinkies without hesitation, but refused the salmon, that I don't know how I'd scent salmon to smell of pinky. Maybe I'll try the starve strategy in a couple of months. Things is I know John fed his snakes on fish with just the odd pinky, so I'm surprised she's refusing the fish.

It's good to know that you can get them back onto a mixed diet after they've been on a solid pinky diet.

[katach]

We mix it up here too. Worms, fish, slugs, and pinkies.

[BUSHSNAKE]

im interested in breeding an amphibian to offer as food such as axolotles or reed frogs...any thoughts out there on that?

[Didymus20X6]

As long as you're breeding them yourself, there shouldn't be a whole lot of concern about parasites. And other than parasites, I can't think of any reason not to feed garters amphibians. Amphibians are a good part of their diet in the wild, and mine absolutely love them.

[kibakiba]

I'll be breeding my frogs once they're old enould. The tadopoles and morphed frogs will be what is getting fed.

[d_virginiana]

Wow, it's usually the other way around; trying to get garters who are used to fish and worms to eat pinkies. We mix the food items up too, but the pinkies were definitely the hardest to get them to eat for us, especially with my older one.


im interested in breeding an amphibian to offer as food such as axolotles or reed frogs...any thoughts out there on that?

I'd just say to make sure you're breeding an amphibian that your snakes could encounter in the wild (like Chantel's). My garter regurgitated food (the only time in his life) when I gave him a pinky that I had previously offered my pacman frog. I think even non-poisonous amphibians can be toxic to snakes that aren't designed to eat them just because a lot of them produce some sort of low-grade toxin in their skin.

[Selkielass]

All my snakes go nuts for fresh garden worms. Store worms are pale substitutes. All, including the Butlers relish rodents, whole or chopped, but they seem to me to be more prone to overeating and becoming fat. (Very rich food compared to fish amphibians worms and leeches, I suspect.)
Both my eastern and marcianus became overweight last fall on a predominantly rodent diet with occasional breaks of silversides and worms.

For those who do offer rodent as part of a mixed diet, how often or in what percentage do you offer rodents?
I am moving towards less than 50%, but I am not sure how far below I should go.

[EasternGirl]

I don't know...I feed a mixed diet...but the diet is one that has a basis of pinkies...they eat more pinks than anything else. I feel more comfortable with my snakes eating more pinkies that anything else...because of the problems associated with feeding too much fish. I feed them worms occasionally, but worms are not as easy to come by...so they eat more pinkies and fish. Summer is coming, so there will be worms in my backyard again, and they will get more worms during the warm months. If I had to feed my snakes only one thing though, I would feel safer feeding them pinkies all the time than fish all the time. As it stands now, I alternate...one feeding I do pinkies, the next feeding I do fish...so they pretty much get a 50/50 diet of pinkies and fish with the occasional worm feeding thrown in. In the summer...I will probably start alternating so it's pinkies one feed, fish the next, worms the next.

[BUSHSNAKE]

I'll be breeding my frogs once they're old enould. The tadopoles and morphed frogs will be what is getting fed.
cool...what kind are they

[kibakiba]

Pacific chorus frogs. Northwesterns and Snap (concinnus) go absolutely crazy for them... They're really common around here. You used to be able to find 30 frogs just in one bush.

[ConcinusMan]

im interested in breeding an amphibian to offer as food such as axolotles or reed frogs...any thoughts out there on that?

Yeah, I was just thinking about that. I collected eggs and now have a ton of squirming, thriving little chorus frog tadpoles which have grown tremendously since hatching and need nothing more than an occasional water change and a little flake fish food. Man, these tadpoles would be perfect baby garter food. In just a few months, I'll have little froglets. But alas, now that I have the tadpoles, I have no baby garters.:rolleyes:

When I kept adult chorus frogs, they did breed but only produced perhaps 30 eggs, and the frogs are high maintenance. Wouldn't be cost effective or practical, but collecting the wild eggs and raising them, is. Good timing too. Tadpoles are full size about the time that baby garters are available for sale. (April, May)

If only there was a way to ship them alive as baby garter food. There are thousands of them in standing water outside my door, plus the ones I'm raising. I would imagine that the ones I hatched out indoors are free of parasites.

Personally, I wouldn't fuss if I had a garter that ate only pinks. That's fine really, but getting them on fish too, at least gives you other options.

[stevenrudge]

ok feeding pinks or rodents in a mixed varied diet is not a problem,the problem is what it leads to if the diet is based or a pure rodent diet,there is a tendency at lest in England within the pet trade to sell garters on a mouse based diet, while l admit that a small garter looks to be doing fine on a pinky diet it naturally lead to a exclusive mouse diet for the rest of its life,and that has to be wrong for many resigns to big to go into on this thred but the short version is-garters are designed to eat soft bodied animals,a mouse is not a soft bodied animal.Garters have a high metabolic rates-they digest there soft bodied food very quickly.A mouse diet takes longer to digest so your messing with the snakes natural metabolic and digestive rates.its mush easier just to defrost and feed a mouse than use fish so hobbiest are inclined to stick with the mice so this leads to the garters not having any variation in their diets.plus in Europe there is anecdotal evidence that a mouse diet shortens the life span of garter snakes, So for us as hobbiest wanting to take the best possible care of are pets why would we want to take the risks with are pets food just because its easier for us to feed mice?

[Invisible Snake]

I personally feed my garters pinkies and guppies because that is whats available in my area. they do sell amphibians in my area but they are expensive to buy as food for my garters. I plan on adding nightcrawlers to their diet when it gets colder in my area.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Pacific chorus frogs. Northwesterns and Snap (concinnus) go absolutely crazy for them... They're really common around here. You used to be able to find 30 frogs just in one bush.
i think chorus frogs might be perfect, let me know how the froglets do once they morph out...im curious big they will be

[snakehill]

I can't get mine to eat anything but nightcrawlers at this time. I have been trying to get them to eat pinkies. Now I read about getting them off pinkies! I am very confused! :confused:

[guidofatherof5]

Don't be confused. Personal preference is a big part of keeping them.

[guidofatherof5]

I can't get mine to eat anything but nightcrawlers at this time. I have been trying to get them to eat pinkies. Now I read about getting them off pinkies! I am very confused! :confused:

Don't be confused. Personal preference is a big part of keeping them.

[d_virginiana]

Don't be confused. Personal preference is a big part of keeping them.

You mean the snakes' personal preference? :p

Mine decide what they want to eat and hunger strike till I figure out what it is they're craving at the moment. lol I think they know that if they wait long enough they'll eventually get whatever they were begging for. They consistently outsmart me.

[guidofatherof5]

You mean the snakes' personal preference? :p

Mine decide what they want to eat and hunger strike till I figure out what it is they're craving at the moment. lol I think they know that if they wait long enough they'll eventually get whatever they were begging for. They consistently outsmart me.


So true, so true.

[Didymus20X6]

I think in both cases, it's about trying to get them to eat a balanced diet. It's not that pinkies or worms in and of themselves are bad, but rather that each is missing something that the other provides. Pinkies, for example, provide calcium, and worms have all sorts of biotics that are supposed to be good for garter snake digestive systems. Combine that with fish (preferably a non-thiaminase-rich one), and you've got a well-balanced diet that's all around better for the snakies.

[kibakiba]

i think chorus frogs might be perfect, let me know how the froglets do once they morph out...im curious big they will be
My female is still a little bit too young to breed I believe. She's pretty much just interested in eating ;)

[stevenrudge]

All my snakes go nuts for fresh garden worms. Store worms are pale substitutes. All, including the Butlers relish rodents, whole or chopped, but they seem to me to be more prone to overeating and becoming fat. (Very rich food compared to fish amphibians worms and leeches, I suspect.)
Both my eastern and marcianus became overweight last fall on a predominantly rodent diet with occasional breaks of silversides and worms.

For those who do offer rodent as part of a mixed diet, how often or in what percentage do you offer rodents?
I am moving towards less than 50%, but I am not sure how far below I should go.No more then 4-1 ,l only give mine rodents once a month,l'd be careful with amphib's as well not because theres anything wrong with feeding them,more on the supply side, with the snakes really liking them and then not being able to get them

[EasternGirl]

I went looking for nightcrawlers in my yard yesterday...hoping there would be some due to the warm weather we have been having and thinking they would be popping out because it was raining. Nothing! Guess I'm going to have to take a trip to the marine store.

[stevenrudge]

I went looking for nightcrawlers in my yard yesterday...hoping there would be some due to the warm weather we have been having and thinking they would be popping out because it was raining. Nothing! Guess I'm going to have to take a trip to the marine store.l just put something flat on the ground over soil or grass,a small slab,then if l ever need any winter or summer l just lift the slab and pick up all the worms l need,they tend to gather at the surface of the ground next to the slab

[EasternGirl]

Yes...that is a good idea. I have noticed they gather under logs and such. Perhaps I will try to find something flat to put over a spot the soil in my backyard. Thanks for the idea. :)

[ConcinusMan]

Quite often people come to the forum with concerns that their snake hasn't eaten in a long time. I think that much of the time it isn't because the snake doesn't want to eat. It just doesn't want to eat what is being offered. Quite of few of my snakes will relish one food or another for a period of time, then suddenly refuse to eat. Usually if I switch foods they'll eat.

It's so dang wet around here I don't have to set "traps" for worms. They're all over the ground! and so are tadpoles, salamanders, chorus frogs, etc. Garter food everywhere right now, right outside the door.:D

[EasternGirl]

Well...Seeley will certainly prove you correct on that, Richard. He had refused to eat again for three feedings. I went out and picked up some worms and, of course, as soon as I put some in front of him, he gobbled them up like he was starving. He just wanted worms. Unfortunately, the stupid cold dry weather around here is making it so that I haven't seen any worms outside yet.

[Thamnophis]

I read about periods of food refusal in this topic. My snakes do never refuse food (except some of them when they have to shed skin - but most of them also eat in the shedding period).
Could this be because of the diet I feed my snakes? About 95 % smelt and the other 5 % exists of chicken heart, salmon or pollock. This is complemented with a multivitamin/mineral product (I added some extra vit. B1 to it myself) every second or third feeding. I feed on average once a week (the 2 years and older snakes) and about every 4th day for juveniles. I only give pregnant females every now and then one pinky.
I do this for about the last 10 years or so. Have good breeding results and healthy snakes that tend to live long.

[surfersnake]

I am planning on doing the a similar diet change and am glad to see someone else has succeded! good job by the way

[stevenrudge]

I am planning on doing the a similar diet change and am glad to see someone else has succeded! good job by the wayThanks TBH if l'd had known in the first place about their diets l would not have bought them,if l had failed in getting them back to a more balanced diet,l was seriously thinking about selling them on,l've found that a hungry snake will always eat,and even if a snake develops a food preference l let the snake go hungry other wise it can be a case of the snake training the keeper

[guidofatherof5]

And is there something wrong with the snake training the keeper?:D

[ssssnakeluvr]

Well...Seeley will certainly prove you correct on that, Richard. He had refused to eat again for three feedings. I went out and picked up some worms and, of course, as soon as I put some in front of him, he gobbled them up like he was starving. He just wanted worms. Unfortunately, the stupid cold dry weather around here is making it so that I haven't seen any worms outside yet.

its a bit dry in Utah also... I go to Walmart to their sporting goods section and buy worms :D

[stevenrudge]

And is there something wrong with the snake training the keeper?:Din my book yes

[guidofatherof5]

And is there something wrong with the snake training the keeper?:D


in my book yes

Just kidding around ;)

[stevenrudge]

Just kidding around ;)No worries bud

[EasternGirl]

I read about periods of food refusal in this topic. My snakes do never refuse food (except some of them when they have to shed skin - but most of them also eat in the shedding period).
Could this be because of the diet I feed my snakes? About 95 % smelt and the other 5 % exists of chicken heart, salmon or pollock. This is complemented with a multivitamin/mineral product (I added some extra vit. B1 to it myself) every second or third feeding. I feed on average once a week (the 2 years and older snakes) and about every 4th day for juveniles. I only give pregnant females every now and then one pinky.
I do this for about the last 10 years or so. Have good breeding results and healthy snakes that tend to live long.

Can I ask how often you would feed newborn scrubs? I have eastern babies that are two weeks old. I have been giving them small feedings every day...worms, fish, pinky mixes...just enough to fill their little stomachs. I don't want to overfeed...but I want to make sure they are getting plenty of nutrients. Also...I give my adult snakes calcium/vitamin D3 supplement every 3 feedings. Is this safe for babies?

[ConcinusMan]

it's safe if you don't over do it. D3 overdose isn't pretty. i don't supplement at all and my snakes do just fine. Pinkies have plenty of D3 and calcium. I feed babies not too full, 3-5 times a week.

[EasternGirl]

I will skip a feeding tonight then...I was feeding everyday...they were just taking a couple of bites each, but last night they were eating a little more and their tummies looked quite bulgy. One scrub in particular is a little pig. I think I will go with every other day with small feedings until I see a little bulge.

[ConcinusMan]

You can feed them every day, if you don't have 50 of them lol. But seriously, I would skip days every now and then, especially after they eat dense food such as pinky parts.

[Thamnophis]

I feed my newborns every second day during the first three weeks or so. After this period I take out the good eaters or the bad eaters (depends on their numbers) and house them apart. The bad eaters still get food every second day and the good eaters twice a week or so.

[stevenrudge]

I feed my newborns every second day during the first three weeks or so. After this period I take out the good eaters or the bad eaters (depends on their numbers) and house them apart. The bad eaters still get food every second day and the good eaters twice a week or so.same as the above,l grade them as to how they feed, separated as needed,then once they are properly established feed twice a week,l keep them warm the first winter,unless their still bad feeders,then l see what their like when l warm them back up

[BUSHSNAKE]

i third that, i do exactly as you say:)

[ConcinusMan]

In the end I suppose it doesn't much matter how you do it as long as they do not over eat or starve!