Little ones don't always get big...

[Thamnophis]

One of my San Francisco garter snakes, born on 30-05-2010, refused to grow.

She ate àlways and always a lot of fish/chicken heart. Was fed two times per week. Was active and curious, always shed well and looked completely healthy. She only forgot to grow.

Now, almost two years old, she died. Nature always has it way!

On the picture she is dead for about an hour.

http://www.thamnophis.eu/thamnophis/kneusje.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Poor little girl...rest in peace, little one.

[guidofatherof5]

Poor little scrub.

[Stefan-A]

Sad and fascinating.

[Selkielass]

Beautiful little thing. Its a shame her 'growth switch' never kicked on.
It makes me wonder if dwarfism is documented in reptiles.

[infernalis]

Sad and fascinating.

^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^

[katach]

Beautiful little thing. Its a shame her 'growth switch' never kicked on.
It makes me wonder if dwarfism is documented in reptiles.

I was thinking that too.

[gregmonsta]

Beautiful little thing. Its a shame her 'growth switch' never kicked on.
It makes me wonder if dwarfism is documented in reptiles.

It's been reported here more than once ;), pretty sure there will be a paper on it somewhere. It's a shame she didn't make it longer but it appears to be a recurring theme - dwarfism = reduced lifespan.

[Thamnophis]

I've seen it before in other reptile species in the shelter I used to work.
Most of the time they do very well and suddenly you see them deteriorate and 1 or 2 days later it is dead. Often this process takes much longer in reptiles. They can be dying a whole year (f.e. tortoises and turtles).

For me it is ok that the little lady died. That's life.

As long as the snakes that I keep seem healthy and "happy" they deserve to live. When I see they suffer and noting can be done about it, I end their misery. I was never under the impression this little creeper suffered. She was active and very cheeky. She was not afraid of her inmates although they all were a lot bigger. She often stole food out of a the mouth of her "friends".

[EasternGirl]

My male eastern, Seeley, is very, very small. He is W/C and about two years old, I am guessing...yet he only weighs a little over 30 grams. He eats, although he has never been a hearty eater, and he often goes off of food for a month at a time. He has always seemed happy and active though. Lately, he hasn't been looking so good though...I am starting to worry now. He seems weak and limp a lot. I wonder if he is suffering from something similar. These days I would not be surprised if his days are becoming numbered, I am very sad to say.

[InsanePirateDragon]

THere are cases of dwarfism in Leos in pictures they tend to often have curved spines and not live horribly long. So it be possible.

[mustang]

dang, you must've took really good care of her for her to stay alive for over a year with a birth defect that turned lethal. sorry she passed.

[mikem]

I agree. She lived a long time to be so tiny.

[Thamnophis]

Marnie, sounds like how things went here with the little one. Not much you can do, though.

[mikem]

I hope Seeley doesn't have the same thing or something similiar to this. It's always tough when you do everything you can and still not be able to help them thrive.

[DIRK]

HI Fons

i know that. 2 years are very long. a little beauty is gone

[EasternGirl]

Seeley is a hard one to figure out...tonight he was very active. He hasn't eaten again for the last three feedings...but he seemed active and alert today. Just when I think things look bad, he perks up on me. I took him to the vet in February and the vet seemed to think he was fine...so it's hard to tell. He has managed to live for over a year with me and I figure he was close to a year old when I found him. I hope for the best, but I am always prepared for the worst in the back of my mind....it's all I can do.

[harpercat]

I had this very same thing with a Sonoran gopher snake. Sonia lived uuntil she was about two years old also, but never grew. She was bright, active, ate and shed well and interested in her surroundings, but just never grew. One day she suddenly went very listless and her death was swift. She was such a joy to own while I had her, a really friendly little thing, but as has been described above, she just never grew.:(

[Thamnophis]

Exact the same story as mine, harpercat.

[EasternGirl]

As a male eastern...I wonder how big Seeley should actually be at this point, though. I know male easterns do not get very big...but I also know that 30g at two years is very underweight. He is two and a half feet long though. He is just very thin and small in diameter...his head is not much bigger than my thumbnail...but he has grown in length since I found him. He seems to continue to grow in length...and he has grown a bit overall.

[kibakiba]

He's probably fully grown by now.

[d_virginiana]

That's sad, but it's amazing that you kept her alive for that long.

I've never heard about it in reptiles, but there are certain genetic problems with senescence markers in other species that can cause accelerated ageing and severely stunted growth, but the proportions are normal unlike in dwarfism. This just reminded me of that...

[ConcinusMan]

I've had badly inbred T. radixes do the same thing. Flat refuse to grow, die at around 2 years old. This is just probably one of those unfortunate side effects of severe inbreeding depresson.

[Thamnophis]

I've had badly inbred T. radixes do the same thing. Flat refuse to grow, die at around 2 years old. This is just probably one of those unfortunate side effects of severe inbreeding depresson.

That is what I think too. This was the only one of a litter of 40 young. There were a few that died in the first months. Most of them did well. And still do as far as I know. I keep in touch with some of the people who buy my young. Have not got many complains yet...
Inbreeding coul be an obvious reason...

[Invisible Snake]

I've had badly inbred T. radixes do the same thing. Flat refuse to grow, die at around 2 years old. This is just probably one of those unfortunate side effects of severe inbreeding depresson. Hey could you please elaborate on what is "severe inbreeding depression". Thanks.

[BUSHSNAKE]

genetic diversity produces the strongest offspring....inbreeding is the opposite of that

[Invisible Snake]

Inbreeding is when members of the same family mate and produce offspring, does this also apply to cousins?

[Thamnophis]

In cousins the chance of inbreeding is smaller than with brothers and sisters, fathers and daughters, mothers and sons.
In case of T. s. tetrataenia you have to assume that all specimen that are kept in Europe are at least cousins.

[ConcinusMan]

Hey could you please elaborate on what is "severe inbreeding depression". Thanks.

inbreeding depression - Google Scholar (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=inbreeding+depression&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=9DWgT8qjD-LjiAKd_LXKAg&ved=0CBwQgQMwAA)

"Deleterious mutations probably play a major role in causing inbreeding depression"

When you inbreed to select for something like amelanism for several generations you not only select for the mutated gene you want, but also for other detrimental things such as dwarfism or protein sythesis or growth deficiencies. In the case of the SF garters, the inbreeding depression ("bad genes" and inferior snakes) is a result of just not having any unrelated snakes to breed to one another.