New Home Butterscotch

[Dan72]

So, went out and got enough things to move the sweet girl from the tub to a tank. Nothing is concrete just wanted enough to get her going in more comfortable digs. The hit list so far: 10 gal tank, screen top which locks (plastic mesh mix) both Wal-Mart. Next we have dome light/heat source from above. (Didn't mess with the underneath strips yet because I'm not sure where the tank is going to be in the house yet). Some cling to the tank vine plants X2, the water bowl was replaced with a new one that could pass for a hide as well, (the old one was a Skip peanut butter lid and I placed it in as well so something familiar carried over). The substrate is still paper towel for two reasons. Still not sure on which kind I want to use and I'm still trying to monitor her progress. Towels are easy. I'm still not sure on rocks, logs, or other hides. Want all that stuff but for now its still toilet paper and paper towel tubes when they become available. No I don't have anything yet to measure temps, I know I need to but not sure on how I want that to be either, any suggestions?? I'll post some pics soon, all coments and questions welcomed.

[guidofatherof5]

These work well.
Amazon.com: Zoo Med Dual Thermometer and Humidity Gauge: Pet Supplies (http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Thermometer-Humidity-Gauge/dp/B0002AQCOG)

[katach]

Sounds like a good start. I got my gauge from walmart. It's a temp (inside and outside) and humidity. It works well and it was $12.

[Dan72]

471847194720
A few pics, dome setup and bulb seem right to everyone?? She seems to be pretty happy with new surroundings. I went through a thread about red lights for albinos. Some do, some don't, is this preference or do we have facts on the matter?

[EasternGirl]

Looks like a nice start for an enclosure. We know that albinos cannot be put under any sort of UV light for certain. It can cause burning of the eyes, skin...skin cancer, etc. So we know that you can only use bulbs that do not contain any UV light...and that albinos generally prefer it darker, and tend to be more nocturnal. As far as other lighting goes...members have preferences, I know that Chris uses a heat mat and LED lights with his albino, and Kat and I use red lights for ours...I also use black bulbs for mine...because they seem to like to climb up in their plants and bask under the light. My Iowa Snow Plains actually likes a bit of light...sometimes I turn on a lamp with a regular 40 watt bulb near his enclosure...not right over his tank...and he likes to come out in the light. However, my albino checkered doesn't like any light at all...he will not come out if there is any light in the room.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking setup and an awesome looking little scrub.
Glad you have it in a safe situation.

[katach]

Looking good. I would watch that light being directly on the mesh top. If it is a plastic mesh and the light gets to warm it could melt. If you can suspend it above the mesh even just an inch would help.

[Dan72]

Someone please look at the bulb being used in the enclosure (pic above). It is a Exo Terra intense basking light. On their website it falls under a incandescent bulb UVA. They make UVA and UVB bulbs. But because Butterscotch is an albino, I shouldn't use UV light. Cancer of the skin and blindness just to name a few issues. Should I change that bulb out and use something else? The guy at the pet shop said the bulb would be fine, now I'm not sure....HELP! She basks under it and seems to enjoy it but I enjoy chocolate and donuts even though I know its not good for me...:rolleyes:

[EasternGirl]

If it says UVA...it has ultraviolet light in it...yes, take it out...the UV is very bad for her skin. Don't listen to pet shop people...they never know what they are talking about. Use a red night bulb...she can bask under that and get the heat...she will like that. If she wants light, just use a regular LED bulb with no UV.

[EasternGirl]

This is what I use for my albinos...they love to bask under them ( I use 40 watt):

Terrarium Lighting: Zoo Med Incandescent Nightlight Red Reptile Bulbs at Drs. Foster and Smith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6534&cmpid=07cseaz&ref=4144&subref=AA)

[Dan72]

Thank you Marnie!!

[EasternGirl]

Sure thing! You can find those bulbs in pet stores...or on amazon.com for pretty cheap. Let me know how she likes it.

[ConcinusMan]

471847194720
A few pics, dome setup and bulb seem right to everyone?? She seems to be pretty happy with new surroundings. I went through a thread about red lights for albinos. Some do, some don't, is this preference or do we have facts on the matter?


I wouldn't use that bulb in your pic. a small florescent tube (regular white or "daylight") and a ceramic heat bulb would be more appropriate, and the lighting would look more natural and won't cause blindness / cancer. you could also use a compact florescent in the dome lamp, and undertank heater.(with substrate)

a red bulb for heat at night allows you to see but the snake will think its dark. they can't see red light at all. not even normal snakes.

the short time you used the UV bulb; dont sweat it. the effects of UV are cumulative. the snake wont be harmed by limited exposure.

awesome snake!

[Dan72]

Thanks Marnie & Richard, I'll jot down everything mentioned and get to store on my weekend. No point in rescueing this great snake from certain doom only to kill it slowley over time. Richard, saw a pic of that arm, ouch!

[Dan72]

If I go with an under the tank heat source and I just stick with paper towel for substrate for now will that be okay? I just like the paper towel for now with the size snake she is. The impaction with certain substrate makes me nervous, and the paper towel is easy to monitor her stools. Also by going under the tank for heat, would I set the temp different with a light source from above? Does the daytime light increase the heat to make it warmer than what the heat source from below is doing??

[guidofatherof5]

I would say no to the under tank heater with paper towels unless you are using a thermostat on the heater.
Even the smallest under tank heater can produce dangerous heat.
In any event, if a UTH is used a thermostat should be used to monitor/adjust the temp.

[EasternGirl]

I agree with Steve on that one, Dan. I am always very careful with UTH heat. Some members think I am a little over cautious...but I say better over cautious than have a burned snake. When using UTH, I always take several factors into consideration...the size of the snake, how much the snake likes to burrow, the type of substrate that I am using, and proper thermostat control. For example, with my albinos, I did not start using a UTH with them until I was absolutely certain that they were not going to burrow down under the substrate and lie directly on top of the glass over the heat mat. Once I was sure of that, I made sure to have adequate substrate above the UTH...a hide placed over the UTH, so they would go under the hide rather than try to burrow, and a thermostat to monitor the heat.

I have noticed with paper towels...my garters have a tendency to burrow under them. That could be a recipe for disaster when using a UTH. :)

[Dan72]

Okay so for now because I do want to stick with the paper towel, I'm sticking with heat from above coming from that dome. Should I just get the red or even black bulbs suggested? I need to get to the pet store with one of you in my pocket, dumb pet store guy. Why is it when you go to the book store, movie store, or pet shop, the people working there seem to just be collecting a check and have no idea what they're talking about. Maybe its just how I overly obsses over a topic until I know everything I can find on it that makes these sales people seem like idiots....;)

[EasternGirl]

I don't know...I guess people who know a lot about about herps and reptiles and that choose to work in the field usually work in more specialized and advanced areas...not pet stores. You will occasionally find someone who works in a pet store who knows what they are talking about...but it is rare. To begin with, most pet stores don't carry a lot of garters. My local pet store, where I often go to get bedding and little hides and such...everytime I go in there the guy that "manages" the reptile department asks me how my corn snakes are doing... Anyway, red bulbs or black bulbs will be fine...if you go with black just make sure they are black light and not blue...some blue bulbs have UV in them. You want to look for night bulbs that do not contain UV. If you are unsure at all...just go with a red night bulb. 40 or 50 watt is good. You can put a pic up of the bulb packaging when you buy it and I make sure it is the right kind. If you want to buy it online...I could give you a link on amazon. It will be cheaper there than in the pet store anyway.

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Nightlight-Reptile-Watts/dp/B000255OVS/ref=sr_1_96?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1336490646&sr=1-96

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Nightlight-Reptile-Bulb/dp/B004LODTB8/ref=sr_1_290?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1336490885&sr=1-290

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006L2UCY/sr=1-10/qid=1336490582/ref=pop?ie=UTF8&qid=1336490582&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-10

60 watt seems to be the lowest wattage in the black light. You can just print pics of these out and take them with you to the store if you don't want to buy them online.

[Dan72]

Yes a link would be good, (if you did this already, I'm not sure, previous post) thanks again.

[EasternGirl]

I edited the last post. :)

[Eight]

From what I understand about lighting, almost all light bulbs produce some uva (unless you buy the more expensive ones designed to block out the uv) and its the uvb which is damaging to albinos?

UVA for Heat
UVB for artificial sunlight.

I may be wrong but its just how I understood it. Hence exoterra slapping UVA all over their bulbs when its UVB that most reps need (so people tend to buy their basking bulbs instead of buying the same thing in their local hardware store at 10% of the cost)

[EasternGirl]

I don't know...I was always under the impression from what I had read and heard that the red and black bulbs for nocturnal heat only do not produce any UV that is dangerous for albinos and that those are best to use. I don't use regular bulbs on my albino tank. I do have a lamp with a regular bulb in it that sits near the albino tank...but it doesn't direct light directly down onto the snakes. I also thought that the UVB and UVA bulbs were supposed to provide UV for reptiles that need that...I do have a UV bulb that I use for my easterns. I thought that any ultraviolet light was dangerous for albinos.

[ConcinusMan]

UV is UV and is bad for albinos. It will "sunburn" them and cause blindness/cancer. For heat, ceramic infrared bulbs are more efficient. all the energy consumed goes to heat and none to light, and its a nice penetrating heat. a 40 watt puts out as much heat as a 60 watt light bulb. They still need light during the day. Ambient window light or a flourescent tube works fine. as marnie said, red or black heat bulbs are just for night time heat and viewing. The snakes cant see the light from those but we can. This is because their visible spectrum is shifted from ours toward the ultraviolet end of the spectrum. we cant see UV but they can. They cant see red, but we can.

kind of funny because a red snake doesn't appear red to another snake/reptile. they are blind to it. Did you know, squirrels can't see green? grass and trees appear purple to them.

[Dan72]

So the red light has been added. She seems to be responding the same as she did to the other heat source as far as where she likes to bask under it and so forth. The difference now being the red light does nothing for me in terms of being able to see just how gorgeous she is:(. Somewhere I thought I read some one suggesting LED lights. So I can see but no harm to her, could somebody help me out with how to go about this with how my setup is. I'll get some fresh picks up soon....

[EasternGirl]

Okay...so just to double, triple, quadruple check...Richard...using a regular household 40 watt bulb in the dome lamp for my new albino baby will be okay, right? He likes light to bask under during the daytime and I really don't have the money to go out and buy a fancy heat emitting ceramic bulb right now. I use a red bulb at night for him.

Dan...this should answer your question too...if you can use a regular bulb in there then you will be able to see her...

[Dan72]

So I went to Petsmart the other day (when I picked up the red bulb), and they had this tree trunk looking thing that I thought would look totally rad (hello 1980's). It has two bigger holes in/through it that even an adult garter would'nt have trouble with so I'm for sure not worried about Butter. BUt it does have a couple of areas that do worry me some. So my thought is this...... if I get some of the tube sealer stuff (very specific, I know) that you guys that build your own enclosures use to seal up the sides and cracks and so forth. Could I get a tube and a gun for that stuff and seal in the trouble spots, let it dry, then it could be added to the viv?

[guidofatherof5]

Can you post a link to what this trunk looking thing looks like.

[Dan72]

This isn't the actual item, but it's close to it as I could find online. What do you think?

http://dfmlo8oja8g1e.cloudfront.net/11442/product/giant/515434.jpg

[katach]

That's neat!

[guidofatherof5]

Can you enlarge the areas of concern so they won't be a concern anymore?

[Dan72]

Can you enlarge the areas of concern so they won't be a concern anymore?

I'm not sure, anything is possible so I would guess yes. You don't think filling the areas would be okay? I was thinking fill them in, level them off smooth to the touch, let dry.... happy snake.

[Dan72]

Here's the trunk that was purchased for the tank. It stands about 8ish inches tall. This isn't the large one I was going to purchase that had the smaller areas of concern on the outside - it wouldn't fit in the tank. This is the medium size one and the area of concern is the top hole because it dives down into the 3 "legs" of the trunk so I don't know if the snake went down in there exploring, if it could possibly get stuck. So, suggestions? Fill it in with something? Cover the top of it somehow? Don't use it at all?

5311531253135314

[guidofatherof5]

Plug the narrow part of the wood with packing peanuts or some other pre-made foam.
This way you can remove it if you have/need to.

[Dan72]

So the tree trunk from above has ended up with Goldie in her tank, Butterscotch got something new. Her enclosure is what I would almost call complete. I'll get some pics up in the next couple days or so, have a family wedding this weekend so if I don't do it soon it might be a few days. I think she loves where she calls home, I know I do. Just need to commit to a substrate...... someday:rolleyes:.

[guidofatherof5]

When we meet I'll give you some compressed aspen pellet to try.
I'm picking up another load next week.

[Dan72]

When we meet I'll give you some compressed aspen pellet to try.
I'm picking up another load next week.

I would love to give it a try, thank you Steve.

[Dan72]

Well Butterscotch has been with us well over two months now, I would say she has past the quarantine stage. Eats, poops, two sheds, everything seems fine. Because she is as young as she is, I never did take her to a vet to have her checked for any worm load she might have being WC, if she has them they don't seem to be a bother for now and she won't be getting a roommate anytime soon so for now I think the girl is fine. I thought I read on a thread where the treatments for the deworming could be stressful and I'd rather not put her through it at this size if I don't need to. Maybe after she has put on some size, or there are plans for her to get a roommate I'll look into it. Pinkies are up again on Wednesday, she missed out last week I got her too full on nightcrawler and she passed on the rodent. This week I'll try to go the other way and see if she will eat the pinky, they were a hit with everyone else.

[Dan72]

So I got a handful of tanks on the cheap, less than a dollar per gallon, and today and yesterday got a 20 gal long cleaned up. Butterscotch has been inside since the end of March when found. She lived for about a week and a half in a tub but then was switched to a 10 gal which she adjusted to fine (loved it). So I can only think that she will love the extra space in the 20 long, but can anyone think of any reason not to switch her viv up again? She has had 3 sheds and is eating pinkys, healthy happy snake and growing like a weed. I say she deserves an upgrade. Plus lets face it, she is the princess of the castle.

[guidofatherof5]

So I got a handful of tanks on the cheap, less than a dollar per gallon, and today and yesterday got a 20 gal long cleaned up. Butterscotch has been inside since the end of March when found. She lived for about a week and a half in a tub but then was switched to a 10 gal which she adjusted to fine (loved it). So I can only think that she will love the extra space in the 20 long, but can anyone think of any reason not to switch her viv up again? She has had 3 sheds and is eating pinkys, healthy happy snake and growing like a weed. I say she deserves an upgrade. Plus lets face it, she is the princess of the castle.

Give her the extra space. She deserves it.

[Dan72]

She does, and of course pics will be included, no extra charge;).

[Dan72]

20 gallon long is now the new home of one happy snake - need to add more green at some point

5798

[guidofatherof5]

Ever thought of laying on its side so you have a front opening enclosure? I've setup about 4 that way.

[Dan72]

I have not even thought of that. The top is a slide in screen so I see where you are going with that....:rolleyes:.

[ConcinusMan]

Okay...so just to double, triple, quadruple check...Richard...using a regular household 40 watt bulb in the dome lamp for my new albino baby will be okay, right?

Probably. If there's any UV output at all, it's very minimal and only effective within a few inches from the bulb. However, a round household bulb isn't ideal. A reflecting bulb is better. You know, one that only shines light down. Like a flood lamp. That way the dome on the fixture won't get so hot.

Sunbeam makes them and I get them for $1 at dollar tree.

Like this kind of bulb:

http://www.lightbulbmarket.com/files/1974975/uploaded/Philips%20BR30%20FR%20Incandescent%20Flood%20Lamp. JPG

[Dan72]

So the new digs seemed to bare, went out and bought more greenery. Looks really good now. She seems to be enjoying herself.

[katach]

Um Dan, your picture didn't load.... :D