Second shed success

[JodiLeigh]

Few days ago this is what he looked like:


4546


And this is what he looks like now:


4547


And here is the skin:


4548


He was foggy and blue eyed for longer this time but the actually shed happened sooner after that phase then his first shed. This skin is completely in tact, no missing scales and all in one piece.


He hasn't been eating well again though and gone off pinkies, still eating worms but obviously that's not enough for him. I think he may have something wrong with his mouth, he's not sticking his tongue as normal. Does anyone know what this means?

[EasternGirl]

Looks like a nice shed...he looks very pretty. The eating and his mouth...is this something that you noticed in the weeks leading up to his shed? And he still isn't eating since he shed and his tongue is still having a problem after the shed? Now you are saying that he is not flicking his tongue? This can definitely be a sign of something wrong. Is there anyway you can open his mouth and look inside to check his tongue? You can try just gently pulling his lower lip down..or you can take something like a credit card...make sure it is clean...and try to very gently slip it in between his lips to pry his mouth apart and see if you see his tongue and what it looks like....but I know a lack of tongue flicking can be a sign of illness. Do you have a reptile vet near you?

[JodiLeigh]

Thank you :)

"is this something that you noticed in the weeks leading up to his shed?" Yes, he last ate about a week ago but just the worm, he didn't touch the pinkie and not touched a pinkie for a few weeks now.

"And he still isn't eating since he shed and his tongue is still having a problem after the shed?" He shed just last night, offered him some food just before he shed which he didn't eat, offered him more today and nothing yet.
"Now you are saying that he is not flicking his tongue?" He hasn't been flicking his tongue for about a week now and is still not flicking it even after his shed although he does stick it out a tiny little bit but looks like the ends are stuck together which I have heard is NOT good! :(

"look inside to check his tongue?" I had a little quick look the other day and can't see anything unusual although I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. There were no lesions or blood, a little extra saliva but that's it. I will check again today to see if anything has changed, I don't like doing it though because he obviously doesn't like it :(

"Do you have a reptile vet near you?" Yes and I've been meaning to take him anyway just to check him over but it will cost me £30 just for a consultation and not had any money the passed two weeks. As soon as I have some money I am taking him but is there anything I should look out for so I know what to tell the vet?

[JodiLeigh]

Still not eaten

Still no tongue flicking

Checked his mouth. No lesions, no blood, a little more saliva then usual but looks the same as last time I checked. I did noticed though that the bottom looks a little more puffy then when I last checked, as if it's a bit swollen maybe?

What does a healthy garter mouth look like? Would help if I saw a picture so I can compare, do you have any?

[Natrix]

[QUOTE=JodiLeigh;205445]Few days ago this is what he looked like:


4546


And this is what he looks like now:


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Look directly behind the Jaw, it looks like he has a swelling that goes under his throat? or has he always been like that?

[EasternGirl]

Yes it does, Rod...good catch..I did not even notice that before. Jodi...the swelling in the throat is often present in respiratory infections...but I also wonder if he has something stuck in his throat possibly. The lack of tongue flicking is worrisome. Can you hear any audible breathing sounds? Any wheezing, crackling or popping sounds? What is his heat and humidity set on right now? I would get him to the vet as soon as you possibly can. Until then, increase the heat and humidity in his tank. Up the heat to about 86 on the warm side and leave it up at night even...he needs the increase in heat to help his immune system now and if it's a respiratory infection the increase in heat and humidity will help his breathing. Try to get the humidity up to 50% or 60%.

[JodiLeigh]

Yes it does, Rod...good catch..I did not even notice that before. Jodi...the swelling in the throat is often present in respiratory infections...but I also wonder if he has something stuck in his throat possibly. The lack of tongue flicking is worrisome. Can you hear any audible breathing sounds? Any wheezing, crackling or popping sounds? What is his heat and humidity set on right now? I would get him to the vet as soon as you possibly can. Until then, increase the heat and humidity in his tank. Up the heat to about 86 on the warm side and leave it up at night even...he needs the increase in heat to help his immune system now and if it's a respiratory infection the increase in heat and humidity will help his breathing. Try to get the humidity up to 50% or 60%.

Yes I had noticed but thought that was just normal.
He makes little very quick clicks but you can only hear it when I hold him to my ear, that's just the glottis isn't it?
After I checked his mouth he did make a little sneeze like noise but he never does that otherwise.
The heat is at 30 degrees Celsius on the warm side, which is 86 in Fahrenheit and the humidity goes between 30 to 50%

I will try and keep the humidity up and put my other heat matt on the back for when the heat lamp goes off so the heat will stay up at night.

I should be able to get him to a vet soon but till then is there anything else I can do?

[Natrix]

This could help us all at some point. ;) Health Problems of Snakes (http://www.grizzlyrun.com/PetEDU/Health_Problems_of_Snakes.htm)

[EasternGirl]

Yes...the clicks are just the glottis opening and closing. His breathing seems okay then. Your heat is good...keep it up on the warm side at night...try to keep the humidity up...and other than that I don't know what else to tell you other than just try to get him checked by a vet as soon as you can. Please keep us posted.

[JodiLeigh]

Yes...the clicks are just the glottis opening and closing. His breathing seems okay then. Your heat is good...keep it up on the warm side at night...try to keep the humidity up...and other than that I don't know what else to tell you other than just try to get him checked by a vet as soon as you can. Please keep us posted.

Thank you :)

I will post back as soon as I have booked the vets and let you guys know when I will be going.

I will keep a very VERY close eye on him until then and it hopefully won't be too long.

Thanks guys and Rod, thanks for the link. I will keep that bookmarked for future reference.

[JodiLeigh]

OK so I took Manny to the vet today and they said it's an infection in his mouth

They gave me antibiotics and he should be all better in less then three weeks

I have just cleaned out his enclosure and all the hides and bowls, given him his first dose of antibiotics and will leave him to rest and get better

I've been able to keep the heat up to 28-30 degrees over night by putting his previous smaller heat mat across the back of the warm side

Hopefully I will be posting again very soon with a nice picture of him looking much better and with his tongue back in action

Than you for all your kind words and advice :)

I really do love this site!

[Natrix]

This site is 100% better than some I can mention ;) Glad to hear you're getting him sorted out.

[JodiLeigh]

This site is 100% better than some I can mention ;) Glad to hear you're getting him sorted out.

Thank you =]

Once he's better hopefully he'll fatten up a little, he's on the skinny side at the moment

I'm surprised how good he was at the vets as well, thought he'd try and do a runner although he did put up an all mighty fight when the vet tried to look in his mouth which shows he's not that poorly and he's strong despite how small he is!

[EasternGirl]

So glad to hear that you got him to the vet and figured out what was going on. Please keep us posted. Hope Manny is feeling better soon!

[guidofatherof5]

What antibiotic was given?

[ConcinusMan]

This is the picture that concerns me, I mean, unless the snake has always looked this way, seems to be some swelling going on along the jaw line behind the eye.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/general-talk/4546-second-shed-success-before.jpg

Hard for an outsider to judge what's "normal" or not. Much easier for a long term owner to spot problems early, because they know their snake. Simply going off of food isn't anything to be concerned about unless the snake is rapidly losing bulk or is also behaving abnormally, showing discomfort, lethargy, or some other thing which is out of character for that individual snake.

Respiratory problems are pretty easy to spot. If it isn't obvious, than it probably isn't that. Based on available info, I don't think that's what it is. But that swelling on the side of the head catches my eye. Doesn't look healthy. If you can look at the inside of the mouth, it should have a wet, slightly pink or clean white look to it. If the flesh inside is pasty and sort of gray looking, I would be concerned.

EDIT: oops.... somehow i missed seeing the entire last page. But anyway, I would be questioning how the infection might have started. Probably didn't just happen spontaneously. Any way for teeth to get broken, or some other way to injure the mouth? Perhaps a splinter jammed in there from the substrate?

[JodiLeigh]

He has always been quite jowly but yes I have noticed a little swelling in his neck but the vet said that's part of the infection.

They gave me Marbocyl with a little syringe.

He's only had two doses so far and he is alredy sticking his tongue back out!

:D SO HAPPY!

Will get some pictures of him sticking his tongue out for you to see :D

[ConcinusMan]

They gave me Marbocyl

*Marbofloxacin* It's another one of those antibiotics that doesn't actually kill anything. It simply prevents DNA synthesis (reproduction) which is good because it won't entirely wipe out beneficial gut bacteria. Also makes it impossible for the bacteria to pass resistance onto the next generation since there won't be a next generation.

[JodiLeigh]

*Marbofloxacin* It's another one of those antibiotics that doesn't actually kill anything. It simply prevents DNA synthesis (reproduction) which is good because it won't entirely wipe out beneficial gut bacteria. Also makes it impossible for the bacteria to pass resistance onto the next generation since there won't be a next generation.

So what does that actually mean?

It seems to be working though

[ConcinusMan]

Think about it. If all the worlds people suddenly became sterile, it wouldn't kill us but we would go extinct in short order. Eventually, we would all die naturally. That's what this antibiotic does to the infection. It gives the snake's immune system a chance to fight the infection. Since the infection can't replicate itself, it can't win by increasing it's numbers faster than the immune system can kill it. If it can't reproduce, eventually they all die out.

Traditional antibiotics such as penicillin kill the infection directly but there are always just a few of them that resist and survive the penicillin. Those resistant ones pass on their resistance to the next generation by replicating their DNA. That is how MRSA came to be. It's a staph strain that is immune to most antibiotics. Since this antibiotic you're using prevents DNA synthesis, it will not produce resistant strains for the future.

[Invisible Snake]

Hey JodiLeigh (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/jodileigh.html) I hope Manny gets better. May I ask how much was the vet bill? And did you find out how Manny got this infection?

[JodiLeigh]

Think about it. If all the worlds people suddenly became sterile, it wouldn't kill us but we would go extinct in short order. Eventually, we would all die naturally. That's what this antibiotic does to the infection. It gives the snake's immune system a chance to fight the infection. Since the infection can't replicate itself, it can't win by increasing it's numbers faster than the immune system can kill it. If it can't reproduce, eventually they all die out.

OOOOW ok!

The rest of that message didn't show up when I read it first.

I thought you were saying it as if it was a bad thing but phew!

Sounds good and appears to be working.

The swelling in his neck has gone down but looks pointy now :/ weird and the end of his tongue is white, is that normal with a mouth infection?

[JodiLeigh]

Hey JodiLeigh (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/jodileigh.html) I hope Manny gets better. May I ask how much was the vet bill? And did you find out how Manny got this infection?

It was £29.98 for the consultation alone then the antibiotics costs only £0.98p HA HA how silly is that!

I don't know how he got it unfortunately, I hope it's not something bigger then just an infection.

I don't see any way he could have broke a tooth or injured himself so unless I wasn't being as strict with the cleaning as I should I just don't know.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, I don't like "splintery" substrates and yours looks splintery. When they burrow through it, tiny spinters have a way of finding their way into the mouth or "lip" area where they become lodged and cause infections. That's just one possibility. There could be something in there that you can't see, and/or was missed by the vet. possibly one of those tiny splinters.

[Natrix]

That's why I choose Carefresh available on Ebay. Soft warm and looks OK. ;)