what snake?

[mark cope]

what snake is on the header to the forum .....the red and blue one?

[guidofatherof5]

Federally protected Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia -San Francisco Garter Snake.

[Natrix]

If you like those the you'll love these - Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis - California Red Sided Garter 4540 ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry for my above post I thought you were in the U.S.

In the U.K. you are lucky to have the opportunity to own them. Grumble, grumble.

[Natrix]

But Steve, you get all the fun over there. I mean all the sub- species of Thamnophis in one big garden. Countless other species that you could shake a stick at and what have we got here. 3 native and 1 none native species. All of the natives are protected. One has total protection while the other two are protected against harm but you can keep them in captivity but you can't trade them. AND one of those is venomous! :( The other 'Alien' Species is the Esculapian Rat Snake of which there are two known breeding populations. One in London and the other in Wales. I'm coming over there!!! ;)

[guidofatherof5]

You are right Rod. I shouldn't complain but..........:D

[Didymus20X6]

Well, St. Patrick did live in Britain before he was taken to Ireland.

[infernalis]

It rains radix from the sky over Steve's house.

It just rains in England.

[Natrix]

It rains radix from the sky over Steve's house.

It just rains in England.
Yep! And guess what? It's raining as I type. :rolleyes: I gotta migrate west or to Western Canada ( Manitoba ,Vancouver Island) Sounds good to me.:D

[kibakiba]

It just rains in Washington, too. It hasn't rained snakes in about 9 years.

[Natrix]

Cold and wet here atm. Gone from Warm and Sunny to Cold and Snowy in 24hrs? :(

[kueluck]

Well blow one of those snake filled clouds my way please.

[EasternGirl]

Sounds like Delaware, Rod...it's 80 degrees here one day and 50 the next. One day I'm in shorts and the next I have my winter coat back on...it's crazy!

[Natrix]

My Cousin lives in Nanaimo, Vancouver Island. She used to live just south of Calgary, Alberta. Keeps telling me to visit. The reply is always the same! " Lass! If I come over there, I won't be coming home!" :D

[guidofatherof5]

Well blow one of those snake filled clouds my way please.

Sorry, all snake filled clouds must rain down on the Ranch.:p:D

[chris-uk]

My Cousin lives in Nanaimo, Vancouver Island. She used to live just south of Calgary, Alberta. Keeps telling me to visit. The reply is always the same! " Lass! If I come over there, I won't be coming home!" :D
Nanaimo is nice. I'd go back.

Regarding the San Fran that the op asked about - ironically, the federally protected San Francisco Garter is probably easier to find (for a price) than many other species of garter in the UK. It may just be that breeders of tetrataenia make themselves easier to find.

[mark cope]

Nanaimo is nice. I'd go back.

Regarding the San Fran that the op asked about - ironically, the federally protected San Francisco Garter is probably easier to find (for a price) than many other species of garter in the UK. It may just be that breeders of tetrataenia make themselves easier to find.

Chris do you know where to get them in the UK?
Mark

[Natrix]

Chris do you know where to get them in the UK?
Mark
Mark, Team valley Reptiles- Gateshead had some in a couple of weeks back, just been on their web site and there are none listed now. They were around £65-£67 just as a rough guide. Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis - (California Red Sided Garter Snake) are just as colourful. ;)

[mark cope]

Mark, Team valley Reptiles- Gateshead had some in a couple of weeks back, just been on their web site and there are none listed now. They were around £65-£67 just as a rough guide. Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis - (California Red Sided Garter Snake) are just as colourful. ;)

First mission is getting wifey to let me get another snake:)

[Natrix]

I don't have that problem.......;) been there twice:D

[EasternGirl]

Oh you guys are making me jealous! I would love to have a San Fran or an Infernalis! Mark...something to keep in mind...San Frans and Infernalis are aggressive by nature. Not very friendly garters! :) Some people like that...or don't mind it, anyway. But, if you are looking for a friendly garter that you can handle, those usually are not the way to go.

[kueluck]

And today’s episode of SNAKE HOARDERS will be at the T. Radix Ranch. :D

Sorry, all snake filled clouds must rain down on the Ranch.:p:D

[mark cope]

Oh you guys are making me jealous! I would love to have a San Fran or an Infernalis! Mark...something to keep in mind...San Frans and Infernalis are aggressive by nature. Not very friendly garters! :) Some people like that...or don't mind it, anyway. But, if you are looking for a friendly garter that you can handle, those usually are not the way to go.

It is something I will have to to look into ..........but it is such a beautiful looking snake:)

[chris-uk]

Mark - I don't know anyone who has confirmed that they will have tetrataenia litters in the UK. There's a few who may have them. A good bet is to search on the RFUK classifieds, not for whavis available now, but for people who bred them last year - there's a fair chance they'll be breeding again this year.
I've not handled an infernalis, but I have handled a tetrataenia and she wasn't aggressive. She was nervous, but not aggressive. Certainly no more flighty than our Cuitzeos. It may be that the tetra I handled was calm for the species.

If you're looking forward good handling garter I'd recommend radix or marcianus. It depends what you want, if you want a stunningly good-looking snake a tetra fits the bill.

[mark cope]

Mark - I don't know anyone who has confirmed that they will have tetrataenia litters in the UK. There's a few who may have them. A good bet is to search on the RFUK classifieds, not for whavis available now, but for people who bred them last year - there's a fair chance they'll be breeding again this year.
I've not handled an infernalis, but I have handled a tetrataenia and she wasn't aggressive. She was nervous, but not aggressive. Certainly no more flighty than our Cuitzeos. It may be that the tetra I handled was calm for the species.

If you're looking forward good handling garter I'd recommend radix or marcianus. It depends what you want, if you want a stunningly good-looking snake a tetra fits the bill.

my son Joe has an Eastern
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_03170009.jpg
does'nt seem to mind being handled

but the Tetra would be mine.

[ConcinusMan]

Just an opinion but I don't think that's an eastern. I think it's a T. sirtalis parietalis ^^^ probably. Maybe. Oh nevermind! :p


Cold and wet here atm. Gone from Warm and Sunny to Cold and Snowy in 24hrs? :(

Oh sure. Why not. I live in the Mojave desert. (California) 6 inches of snow on Monday, sunny and +28 C degrees on Wednesday, -8 C on Friday. It's like that.

[EasternGirl]

Oh I agree that San Frans and Infernalis are gorgeous snakes...I would love to have one of each...and I wouldn't care if they were aggressive. I have heard that they are...but I am sure there are exceptions to that. I don't think that is an eastern either. But I keep getting surprised by easterns that are very different looking than the ones I am used to seeing.

[ConcinusMan]

It wouldn't surprise me if it was an eastern, I just don't think it is one though. If it's not a parietalis then it's probably a northern garter. :p

[guidofatherof5]

T.marcianus-Supralabials 8, lateral stripe confined to 3rd dorsal scale row on neck (rows 2 and 3 thereafter)

T.sirtalis- Supralabials usually 7, lateral stripe usually confined to dorsal scale row 2 and 3

Info. from: The Garter Snake- Ecology and Evolution by Ross, Ford and Seigel

[ConcinusMan]

The question was Steve, is it an eastern or a red sided . (which are both sirtalis' as you know) I think it's the latter, in spite of the lack of red. That's why I made the reference to "northern" garter. It looks like the "northern" garter we saw before, which was really just a T. s. parietalis that lacked red. I think something similar happened here. I think he has a red sided here but came to the conclusion that it's an eastern just because it doesn't have red. Of course, if it was found well outside the range for parietalis than it must be an eastern. It just gives me the strong impression that it's a red sided (T. s. parietalis)

[guidofatherof5]

T.marcianus-Supralabials 8, lateral stripe confined to 3rd dorsal scale row on neck (rows 2 and 3 thereafter)

T.sirtalis- Supralabials usually 7, lateral stripe usually confined to dorsal scale row 2 and 3

Info. from: The Garter Snake- Ecology and Evolution by Ross, Ford and Seigel


Please disregard this post I made. It is in the wrong thread. Sorry about that.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I noticed that when I read the other thread. No biggie. :cool:

[mark cope]

when we got it, we was told north american garter(does that mean northern?)...another site said it was an eastern:confused:

[guidofatherof5]

Northern garter snake- No such animal.

[EasternGirl]

Chris had the same situation...actually many people in the U.K. do. Greg has an entire thread dedicated to the fact that garters are being mislabled in the U.K. all the time...often being labled "Northern Garters"....Chris was told his garter was an eastern and it looked similar to yours in the fact that like Richard said...it looked like a red-sided, or parietalis, but with out the red...which happens. So...I'm leaning toward agreeing with Richard on this one...looks like it might be a garter like Chris's...a parietalis without the characteristic red.

Can someone put that thread of Greg's up for Mark to read? And Chris...if you come across this thread..could you post a pic of Nobby?

[Didymus20X6]

Almost all garter snakes are North American, with the exception of a few Central American species.

[EasternGirl]

Right...but we are saying there is no such species as a northern garter.

[mark cope]

Now....... I'm more confused than ever:confused:

[ConcinusMan]

Almost all garter snakes are North American, with the exception of a few Central American species.

Yeah, really. Why don't they just call it "common garter snake" and be done with it. :rolleyes:

And I've seen Canadian radixes and non-red parietalis' both called "northern garters" before. I don't think they care what kind it is, if they're coming out of Canada, they call them "northern". Oy vey.

[EasternGirl]

Mark...from what I understand...there are stores and breeders in the U.K. that are trying to pass off certain species and subspecies of garters as a different species or rather...they are mislabeling them..probably because they have no idea what species and subspecies the garter actually is...and they have a tendency to sell the garters labeled as "northern garters" as if this is an actual species of garter snake. But there is no species or subspecies of garter called a northern garter. It doesn't exist.

[Didymus20X6]

In other words, Mark, don't just trust what the store tells you. If you really want to know what snake it is, get some clear pics and post them here where the experts can tell you for certain.

[mark cope]

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_04020004.jpg
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_03170002.jpg
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_03180001.jpg
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_03180002.jpg

these are all i have at the moment

[EasternGirl]

I'm still saying that looks exactly like Chris's parietalis without the red. Or...it does look a little like some of the easterns that I have seen in the northern states. Chris has been really busy lately...but I will send him a PM and tell him to look at this thread. I'm going to start a new thread asking about your snake Mark.

[Natrix]

The Lateral stripe seems to be confined to rows 2 & 3. upper labials 7, I think? So is it Possibly an Eastern?

[EasternGirl]

I started a thread for this...we are getting some parietalis votes too. The problem is I think parietalis might have 7 supralabials too. It also has the lateral stripes....I believe. I'm so confused anymore...Lets call them all new names. :rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, any T. sirtalis will have 7, occasionally 8. (of those that have 8, it's usually just a "split" scale, sometimes on just one side) That includes parietalis, concinnus, pickeringi, infernalis, tetrataenia... etc. All T. sirtalis including T. sirtalis sirtalis (eastern). That doesn't help with subspecies I.D. Finding out what rows the lateral stripes are confined to doesn't help either.:cool: These scale counts are what makes them all T. sirtalis'. It doesn't tell us anything about the subspecies!:rolleyes:

I guess that the bottom line is, sure, an eastern could look like this snake and the scale counts would "fit". But the same is true of a red sided without the red. It's just my opinion that it's the latter.

So where's this new thread? Are you going to make me look for it? C'mon, link.

[EasternGirl]

Ask and you shall receive: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/10255-another-snake-id.html

[chris-uk]

I'd put good money on this snake being the same batch as our Nobby - Mark, do you have a weight and approximate length for your one?

Here's a picture of Nobby, the similarities are uncanny (or maybe not uncanny, given both were sold as "Northern Garters":
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/NobbyNobbs_019_-_cropped_800w.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/NobbyNobbs_020_-_cropped_1000w.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=10402&title=27-feb-2011corporal-nobbs&cat=734)