Is my set up ok?????

[mark cope]

Hello peeps,
My name is mark and I'm from Hertfordshire ,UK I joined this fine forum to-day, Me and my son are new to the hobby.So we are looking for opinions on the set up we have,it's the way we got it from the shop. so if you think we are doing something wrong or generally improve please let us know, by the way the garter is Joes my 7 year old son

This how we store it
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_04020001.jpg

The guy in the shop said we should put a heat mat under one end
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_04020002.jpg

This inside the viv
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_04020003.jpg

And there she is hiding under the greenery Martha the Garter:)
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Joe%20and%20his%20garter/2012_04020004.jpg

So like I said all opinions, advice will be welcome

Mark and Joe

[guidofatherof5]

Martha is beautiful.
Are you using a rheostat on the heat mat?
Any chance you can find a longer viv?
Garter snakes love explore and the more room the merrier.;)

[mark cope]

not using a rheostat....not even sure what it is, as for bigger after looking through site I now know what a RUB is so can probably get a large one of those

[guidofatherof5]

Terrarium Temperature Control: Zoo Med ReptiTemp Rheostat at Drs. Foster and Smith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6544&cmpid=07csegpl&ref=6111&subref=AA&CAWELAID=525353801)

[guidofatherof5]

Without a rheostat heat mats can run too hot and kill.

[mark cope]

I'm using this heat mat
Heat Mat by Pro Rep | Pets at Home (http://www.petsathome.com/shop/heat-mat-by-pro-rep-37024)

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to The Pro-Rep.co.uk Website (http://www.pro-rep.co.uk/heat_mat.html)

Product information

ProRep Heat Mats

Heat Mats & Strips produce ultra long wavelength infra red heat. This wavelength is invisible to the human eye and tends to heat furnishings in the cage rather than the air. This action of heating is very similar to the sun and it has the ability to heat anything that it strikes but with the air temperature remaining much lower. Reptiles absorb this in a manner very similar to basking in a natural environment. Heat mats do get warm but provide a very gentle warmth which the animal can sit under or on top of. Used under normal conditions Habistat heat mats cannot burn.

ProRep Heat Mat Diagram

Directions:
Heat mats can be used on the floor or mounted on the wall of the vivarium. When using on the floor on the inside of a cage it is imperative that some safeguards are adhered to. If substrate is used, it should be kept to less than I cm
deep. Many substrates have very good insulative properties (Vermiculite, wood chips etc.) and placing too much over the heat mat will stop the heat getting into the vivarium where it is needed.

The Heat mat should cover 1/3 - 1/2 of the floor space within the vivarium.

Finally
Remember, never install heating and then leave it unattended. Establish that the installation is correct and that the vivarium is being maintained at the desired temperature. Never expose animals to any risk of over heating. Once installed, heating should be tested for a minimum of 48 hours prior to the introduction of livestock. Do not risk the animal's safety!

[mark cope]

Guy in the shop said to put it under the viv so it can't burn the snake.
keeps the warm end between 76-78 degrees
but if you think it a wise choice then I should get one, as it can be used on two vivs I can use the other one for my king snake (the viv underneath)

[guidofatherof5]

Better safe then sorry. I don't trust electrical devices on their own. These rheostats kill the power to the mats if a problem arises.
You could go a little warmer on the warm side in my opinion. What is your room temp?

[mark cope]

70-71 degrees
but heat mat is a set temp (can't make it any warmer)

[guidofatherof5]

Where and how are you getting your temp?

[mark cope]

Digital Thermometer by Exo Terra | Pets at Home (http://www.petsathome.com/shop/digital-thermometer-by-exo-terra-28245)

Each day I place it at the warm end for 10 mins then place it at the cool end for 10 minutes.
but i am planning to get more so I can just leave one at each end full time

[guidofatherof5]

What actual location is the warm temp coming from? on the side, substrate?

[mark cope]

just above the substrate

[EasternGirl]

Like Steve said, ultimately you do want your temps on the warm side to be a bit warmer than that...you want to shoot for somewhere around 80-84 degrees during the day and not let it go below 65 degrees at night. You do have to be careful with heating devices...even if they are on the outside of the viv...I have lamps and heat mats on the outside of my tanks but I use a thermostat to shut the heat off should it get over 85 degrees. You also have to be careful with heat mats on plastic enclosures...you must make sure they are specifically made for plastic enclosures and not glass tanks or they can melt the plastic. Another concern that I have seen mentioned before on the forum with plastic enclosures like the one you have with slats for air in them in the top is the danger of the snake getting it's head caught in the slats in an attempt to get out of the enclosure. From the photo it doesn't look like your snake could get her head into the slats but keep in mind that garters can flatten their heads to squeeze them into small spaces. You may want to consider looking for a larger glass aquarium tank with a slid lock lid or a glass terrarium with front opening doors made for reptiles. She is a very lovely snake!

[Natrix]

Nice snake Mark. I would certainly look at getting rubs that will fit the full length and width of your shelving unit if that is how you are going to keep them. Obviousely you would need to drill ventilation holes in them. Try to get ones with a locking lid. garters are notorious for escaping, Arn't they Steve? :D

[Didymus20X6]

An easy heat solution: a cheap lamp and an incandescent bulb just outside the enclosure. Maybe try a low wattage to see how much that helps. The advantage is that it will provide both light and heat.

I have a heating pad under the west end of the land side of my enclosure, which I only use during late fall and early spring. It's actually one I got from the drug store, intended for human use, but it works well for what it does. And I have incandescent bulbs about 12 inches above both the land and water enclosures, in the 100w range. As the weather warms up even more, I will swap them out for florescents. But I live in the Mississippi Delta, and I keep my snakes in an non-air-conditioned room, which can get up to 90F during the hottest parts of summer. And my snakes are Mississippi wild-caughts, and seem to like things a bit warmer. And if they get too warm, they can always go into the water enclosure for a nice swim.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice snake Mark. I would certainly look at getting rubs that will fit the full length and width of your shelving unit if that is how you are going to keep them. Obviousely you would need to drill ventilation holes in them. Try to get ones with a locking lid. garters are notorious for escaping, Arn't they Steve? :D

I resemble that remark.:D

[Natrix]

I resemble that remark.:D
No Offence, Steve! But you of all people seem to be the one who has something on the loose at some point. And I've only been here a month or so. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

No Offence, Steve! But you of all people seem to be the one who has something on the loose at some point. And I've only been here a month or so. ;)

No offense taken.;)

[mark cope]

Thanks chaps and chapette will probably pick up a Rub at work tomorrow, might have to find another shelving unit as there not much room above the vivs, as for the heat what if I get a stat and move the mat inside the viv?

also can I ask you for you opinion on king snake set up?

[Natrix]

king snake set up? Wooden Viv at least 3' long, Kings, like Corns need plenty of room. House one snake per viv ( they aren't called kingsnakes for nothing) Substrate as for most terrestrial snakes. Hide and water dish, logs/branches, etc..... Ps: On the whole Kings are OK but they can be tempremental, Ok one min, Hissed off the next. Milksnakes are nicer, more colour variety and easier to handle and need the same sort of set up. They also cost about the same some time a little more depending on species.:)

[mark cope]

hang on fella you got to see him first

[mark cope]

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Neo/2012_03230002.jpg
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u453/copey1975/Neo/2012_04020012.jpg
according to guy in shop about six months old

[Natrix]

San luis potosi ?

[mark cope]

what????

i'm new to keeping snakes

[EasternGirl]

Do not put the heat mat inside the viv, Mark...they are not intended to use inside...that can definitely lead to a burned or dead snake. Very pretty king snake!

[Natrix]

4541Lampropeltis-mexicana-thayeri-Straw-Yellow-Leonis-Phase- It looks like one of these? Thayers Kingsnake or Variable Kingsnake. I thought it was something else, a gloden variety of the San luis potosi Kingsnake. Did the guy in the shop not tell you what it was? What ever it is it is very nice. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Keep in mind that most Kings are snake eaters.
Holding the garter and then holding the King may get you bit and vise versa might put the garter on edge.
Also housing them to close together might put both snakes on edge. Predator, prey thing.
Just a thought.;)

[Natrix]

( they aren't called kingsnakes for nothing) ;)

[mark cope]

me and joe always wash hands before ....inbetween ....and after handling snakes:)

[mark cope]

4541Lampropeltis-mexicana-thayeri-Straw-Yellow-Leonis-Phase- It looks like one of these? Thayers Kingsnake or Variable Kingsnake. I thought it was something else, a gloden variety of the San luis potosi Kingsnake. Did the guy in the shop not tell you what it was? What ever it is it is very nice. :D

the guy in the shop was'nt sure what variety it was ........got it from a place called World of water, the place is a pond and fish shop but has a reptile and invertibrate section....we was originally going there for a terrapin

[Natrix]

the guy in the shop was'nt sure what variety it was ?:eek: If they weren't sure of ID then how can they give correct advise on feeding and care. :confused:

[mark cope]

The reptile guy that works there was away picking up new batch of snakes,
I'll ring the shop in a bit and see if he is there and find out

[mark cope]

Just spoke to reptile guy from the shop it's a Thayers Kingsnake :)

[Natrix]

Glad to see i got something right. :)

[Didymus20X6]

the guy in the shop was'nt sure what variety it was ?:eek: If they weren't sure of ID then how can they give correct advise on feeding and care. :confused:
This seems to be a rather common complaint on this forum: pet shops that don't have a clue what snakes they are selling. Sometimes it's a mislabeled snake - a T. radix labeled as a checkered, or the like.

[Light of Dae]

me and joe always wash hands before ....inbetween ....and after handling snakes:)

Awesome habit to make! It is not only for the snakes but for you n your son as well... They was something on here about people getting sick from not washing their hands around feeding and such with mice... not good. Washing is Good. lol :)

Steve knows the thread is around here somewhere... He is kinda like Forum Know-it-all with out being a brassy-know-it-all-in-your-face type of guy... Steve is good snake man. :D

[EasternGirl]

The problem with reptiles and not washing your hands is that reptiles can carry salmonella. From what I have read, it usually comes from them eating rodents and is carried in the feces and in minute amounts in the skin. Not all reptiles carry it, but I think it is something like 80%...and not all people are susceptible to salmonella...but it is wise to wash your hands after handling your snakes to ensure that it is not transmitted to you if the reptile happens to be carrying it. It is also good for the reptile to wash your hands before handling the reptile because we carry many germs on our hands that can be transmitted.

Also, if you are feeding mice to your snakes, always wash your hands after handling mice and do not prepare mice near where you prepare food in your kitchen. Wash any utensils used to prepare the mice separately from utensils, plates, pots and pans used to prepare human food. Clean surfaces used to prepare mice with disinfectant. Rodents have been found to carry salmonella. I also double bag my mice in the freezer and keep them separate from the food that my family eats.

[mark cope]

with the mice we got a beaker with a lid, put water in the beaker, take pinkie out of the freezer and drop straight into beaker, put the lid on then take the beaker to Joes room, when ready put pinkie in with snake............pinkie only touches inside the bag,inside the beaker and inside the snake..........:)

[katach]

Beautiful snakes! Other than the info already provided for you, I would get a larger enclosure like a 20g long. Lots of room to explore and if you put some tall plants or branches they have room to climb. Garters love to explore and mine love to climb.

[Light of Dae]

Nicely done. Just a note, Know that Garter snakes like cold/cool temperature food... I've noticed mine will not eat if the food is room temp or warmer. Something to keep in mind with two totally different snakes, Kings like hot/warm food, Garters like cold/cool.

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome habit to make! It is not only for the snakes but for you n your son as well... They was something on here about people getting sick from not washing their hands around feeding and such with mice... not good. Washing is Good. lol :)

Steve knows the thread is around here somewhere... He is kinda like Forum Know-it-all with out being a brassy-know-it-all-in-your-face type of guy... Steve is good snake man. :D

Was this the thread you were talking about?

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/7346-mice-recall-phone-call.html


Thanks for your kind words. I must thank this forum for most, if not all I know. The members have taught me a lot.

[mark cope]

Beautiful snakes! Other than the info already provided for you, I would get a larger enclosure like a 20g long. Lots of room to explore and if you put some tall plants or branches they have room to climb. Garters love to explore and mine love to climb.

going to put her in a RUB .....just got to shift the furniture in joes room around a bit