Expecting greeny blue things that may be orange and ditto on the big chessboard.

[gregmonsta]

I'm 100% sure that both of John's Florida blue girls are carrying. With the male and both females, being relatively young, as well as this being a first litter, my expectations are not high.

Facts are as follows -

The weight of the big girl (Rusty) is 217g. The smaller (Marina) is 195g (considering she has eaten more there's a relatively larger gap than shown).
Both have pregnancy 'bumps'.
The weight and the bumps are more prominent in Rusty and she has also not been as keen on food. I expect to see something happen with her before long.
Marina has been extrememly food orientated and the weight is not quite as obvious. Being sisters I would expect to see a similar pattern of behaviour as displayed by Rusty once she gets closer to the same weight, to some degree at least.


:rolleyes:

On another note - I may have a gravid marcy on my hands but I'm not 100% yet. Her weight is currently 261g.

[EasternGirl]

Greg...could you please show some pics of these gravid females? If you could focus the shots on the pregnancy bumps it might help me to get a better idea to what I'm looking for when trying to see if Cee Cee is gravid or not. Thanks.

[gregmonsta]

Well, it's more obvious in these girls because they were without food for a bit. The telling thing comes more from the bumps I feel when handling and applying gentle pressure.
I think you'll see and learn more from keeping weight records.
Here is a picture I posted the other day -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/bluegirltum.JPG

You may find flicking through other posts in the breeding section more helpful ;). I know both Stefan and I have posted threads with weight charts in the past and I'm sure you'll find more examples of 'big' girls with obvious weight in the last third of the body and extreme weight gain.

chart example -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Chart_current1.JPG

This was my radix girl showing the weight -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/bigbooty2.JPG

The scale spread on this girl was ridiculous -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/bigmomma.JPG

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/howlonge.JPG

[EasternGirl]

Well, Cee Cee definitely has scale spread...and her weight increased from 130g to 180g in a month. But I have been feeding her more. She definitely has that sausage look in the lower end like those snakes in the pics. I will start weighing her weekly to see if I see a steady increase. Thanks, Greg. This info helps a lot!

[EasternGirl]

I forgot to say that I have tried to feel for the baby bumps that people describe...but I just don't know what I am feeling for. You saw the video I posted of Cee Cee recently...did she look gravid at all in that video to you? Could you tell?

[guidofatherof5]

Best of luck being on baby watch.
Keep us posted on the progress.

[chris-uk]

That's one way to increase the space requirements.
If the female checkered is gravid she managed about 30 live last year (she deserves a year off next year) have you checked with John whether she could be gravid? She was in with the albino checkered and Kenzo, so unless John had put her in with the males...
If you do have 3 gravid females you'll be wanting some space on Sjoerd's table at Donny. ;)
I'm not sure about the female radix I have here, John said that the radix had locked up (brave boy, he's a fraction her size) but so far I'm not convinced she is expecting. Like the Florida blues, this would be a first litter, she wasn't brumated first, and the male is only just mature, so I'd expect slugs.

[gregmonsta]

I forgot to say that I have tried to feel for the baby bumps that people describe...but I just don't know what I am feeling for. You saw the video I posted of Cee Cee recently...did she look gravid at all in that video to you? Could you tell?

I'd say it looks likely ;)


That's one way to increase the space requirements.
If the female checkered is gravid she managed about 30 live last year (she deserves a year off next year) have you checked with John whether she could be gravid? She was in with the albino checkered and Kenzo, so unless John had put her in with the males...
If you do have 3 gravid females you'll be wanting some space on Sjoerd's table at Donny. ;)
I'm not sure about the female radix I have here, John said that the radix had locked up (brave boy, he's a fraction her size) but so far I'm not convinced she is expecting. Like the Florida blues, this would be a first litter, she wasn't brumated first, and the male is only just mature, so I'd expect slugs.

Considering she has bred before I would be less sure of her needing a male before producing a litter. I was planning on giving John a phone and will double check ;), I do remember him saying something about him saying that the old male was still as horny as ever.
Fingers crossed for the radix mate.

[guidofatherof5]

I'd say it looks likely ;)



Considering she has bred before I would be less sure of her needing a male before producing a litter. I was planning on giving John a phone and will double check ;), I do remember him saying something about him saying that the old male was still as horny as ever.
Fingers crossed for the radix mate.

We talking about the snake here, aren't we.:D

[EasternGirl]

I was just looking at Cee Cee...the scale spread on her is pretty significant. She has been acting very skiddish and wanting to spend all of her time on the warm side of the enclosure. She would eat constantly if I let her. We will see... It is possible that she is just a pig. Lol...

[gregmonsta]

We talking about the snake here, aren't we.:D

.... :rolleyes: .... maybe ... :p


I was just looking at Cee Cee...the scale spread on her is pretty significant. She has been acting very skiddish and wanting to spend all of her time on the warm side of the enclosure. She would eat constantly if I let her. We will see... It is possible that she is just a pig. Lol...

Sounds like the signs of a baby factory to me :D

Well .... I have a very restless Rusty on my hands ... I'm considering splitting the girls so I can accomodate a humid hide for the poor beasty. I also don't want miss 'food obsessed' Marina deciding to eat the wrong thing.

[EasternGirl]

Perhaps I will try to make a humid hide for Cee Cee too...she usually acts weird about those too...but I'll see if she will go in it.

[chris-uk]

Fingers crossed for the radix mate.

I'm not convinced. There's no real bulk in the bottom third (she's got a steady girth all the way down) and no scale-spread. The time that John said the radix locked was mid-Jan I'd expect some more obvious signs.
She's also off her food, she's not eaten since the pinky on the night she arrived with us and has refused both salmon (which was her primary diet with John) and pinky twice now. I'm getting a little more concerned about the possible infection after her vent, unfortunately I'm in Scotland all week and Char can't take her to a vet (the wife doesn't drive) so we'll be taking her to see a more experienced snake vet (the guy I saw on Tues was at a practice we've not used before, knew about reptiles in general but not very exp with snakes) when I'm home.

[EasternGirl]

Sounds like a good plan, Chris. Please keep us posted.

[EasternGirl]

Hey Greg...The Reptile Report likes your thread. Colubrids | The Reptile Report (http://thereptilereport.com/category/colubrids/)

[gregmonsta]

Nice to know some things I do are useful :D

[chris-uk]

You do several things quite well Greg. Despite being a Scot. ;)

[gregmonsta]

Found in Rusty's enclosure during the feeding session today -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/fauna.JPG

Quite firm, a smaller version of what my female radix produced last year. Fingers crossed she gets them all squeezed out. I'll be giving her a proper once over again tomorrow.

[EasternGirl]

Now I know why people refer to them as jelly beans. Those are the exact shape of jelly beans...interesting. I hope she is able to get them all out. Please keep us posted.

[kibakiba]

They look like slugs after you pour salt on them a bit too... Sort of.

[EasternGirl]

Chantel...were you one of those kids that poured salt on slugs? Little monster! :D

[kibakiba]

No, my mom does... And I do only if I catch them eating from my strawberry garden. Then I stab them after they have been thoroughly tortured and regret ever setting skirt in my garden.

[gregmonsta]

She passed another slug. I spent some time today raking through her tub.

So ... 3 small slugs ... and suddenly she doesn't feel bumpy anymore. As there is food passing through her I will leave her alone until closer to the next feed before the next check - to be sure.

I was expecting more than this ... fingers crossed she is actually clear.

[EasternGirl]

Lets hope so. Fingers crossed.

[RicMartin]

Fingers crossed.

[gregmonsta]

5 more homeless snails found today.

[guidofatherof5]

As long as they are coming out that's a good thing.

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's my gravid plains....she's getting pretty hefty in the back end... ;)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF4001-3.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

She does look gravid. Sweet looking snake.

[gregmonsta]

Marina has started clearing out a backload of slugs, same format as Rusty's offerings. Glad they are finally on the way. I found 1 yesterday and can currently report 2 more found today.

[guidofatherof5]

Hoping all goes well Greg.

[gregmonsta]

Cheers mate. On another note, forgot to mention yesterday, I can report a sudden weight jump for Squaw (the big checkered girl). 99% sure she's attempting a litter.

[chris-uk]

Can you just recap Greg, of John's snakes -
Florida Blues - both passing jellies?
Normal checkered - gravid and looking good so far.
Albino checkered - ?

And none of the girls you already had are looking gravid (did I read in another thread that Fawn passed jellies again this year or am I mixing up your snakes)?

[EasternGirl]

I hope that she continues to pass everything, Greg. Keep us posted.

[gregmonsta]

53825383
Can you just recap Greg, of John's snakes -
Florida Blues - both passing jellies?
Normal checkered - gravid and looking good so far.
Albino checkered - ?

And none of the girls you already had are looking gravid (did I read in another thread that Fawn passed jellies again this year or am I mixing up your snakes)?
Fawn was earlier in the year. Normal checkered is looking promising as far as weight gain and feeding response. Albino is simply growing at a normal rate. Rusty passed a lot of slugs a while back. Marina has passed 3 slugs ... And has just presented me with a stillborn.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm holding out hope you'll get at least 1 little scrub out of the deal.

[chris-uk]

The checkered girl has a good track record from last year. You should have some scrubs from her at least.

[gregmonsta]

Nothing to report so far today, some orange goo during the night. She's still very active.

[gregmonsta]

Still nothing else to report. Marina is still restless, a gentle feel has me thinking there's still more to come. I'm hoping she clears things soon.

On another note - Rusty has me thinking again. She passed quite a number of slugs over a long time a while back (just over a month ago) but yesterday had me pondering her girth. Any weight lost has rolled back on very quickly and she is showing some serious scale spread.

In both cases of the Florida blue girls I believe there is more to come. The only way I can explain it to myself is that both of them had started to produce egg-masses before the winter. I judge this mostly be the fact that the slugs have been a dark orange and relatively solid, as opposed to being light orange, soft and pliable. It is similar to the slugs produced by Suzy when she delivered last year and both my vet's and my opinions reached a concord of her having started egg-mass production prior to brumation. John had had them with the male and they were then separated last year.

I can only assume that the drop in temperatures in his snake room prompted both their refusal to eat as well as a halt in the development of viable embryos. On arriving at mine they were presented both with optimal temperatures as well as an abundance of food. I believe this has triggered them to finish what they started and in Rusty's case even to possibly re-attempt a litter.

[guidofatherof5]

Hope all turns out alright for them.

[gregmonsta]

Another stillborn today.

[ProXimuS]

I'm very sorry to hear that ...

[candoia aspera]

awwwwww man, that's not good :o(

[chris-uk]

Not good finding a stillborn, I can sympathise. Hoping for better news soon.

[gregmonsta]

Not good finding a stillborn, I can sympathise. Hoping for better news soon.

:o sorry to disappoint ... two more found this morning.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear about your losses.
Bad news but also good news in a way as she's not retaining them.
Hoping she'll get them all out soon.

[gregmonsta]

Think she's finished now. I cleared the whole enclosure and found another 5 slugs and 4 stillborns. She's back on food and I take that as a good sign ;)

[chris-uk]

Is taking food a pretty good indication that it's all over? That would make sense to me, but I have no indication as to whether whether a female might sometimes eat before they are finished.

[gregmonsta]

Depends on the snake, I suppose, but she did refuse food for the entire time she was in 'delivery' mode. I'll give her a proper once over once she's had a couple of days rest.

[scorpion0151]

sorry to hear that Greg I was looking forward to seeing some little blue shoe laces :(

[EasternGirl]

Sorry to hear about all of this Greg...you know I can empathize after finding 37 stillborns in Cee Cee's enclosure. It is a sad thing to experience. Cee Cee is still refusing food...she hasn't eaten since the beginning of April when all of the birth drama began with her. Keeping you in my thoughts...hope she passes everything and comes out of this healthy!