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Natrix
03-09-2012, 05:51 PM
Who can ID these younsters? Click the pic!4362
kibakiba
03-09-2012, 06:08 PM
The one on the right looks like a redsided, but the one on the left looks weird... it almost look like you took my baby Silver's head and merged it onto the body of a redsided.
Stefan-A
03-09-2012, 06:09 PM
T. sirtalis sirtalis and T. sauritus ssp.
guidofatherof5
03-09-2012, 06:09 PM
The back one looks like a possible Eastern?
No guess on the front one.
Any chance you can get individual photos of their faces for a scale count.
A nice focused shot of the lateral area would be nice also.
Natrix
03-09-2012, 06:16 PM
[QUOTE=guidofatherof5;202959]The back one looks like a possible Eastern?
No guess on the front one.
Any chance you can get individual photos of their faces for a scale count.
A nice focused shot of the lateral area would be nice also.[/QUOTE

If I did that it would take the fun out of it.:D
Natrix
03-09-2012, 06:19 PM
Click on the pic Steve. it will enlarge a little.
guidofatherof5
03-09-2012, 06:24 PM
Click on the pic Steve. it will enlarge a little.

Thanks but with these eyes I still can't do a scale count.:D
chris-uk
03-09-2012, 06:31 PM
I like the head colour of the front one. Both look like sirtalis of some description to me (is that a bit of a cop out? "sirtalis of some description" is fairly vague).
EasternGirl
03-09-2012, 06:41 PM
The coloring doesn't say eastern to me unless they are easterns of a northern state maybe...I would have to see the patterns on that back one to tell if it was an eastern...easterns usually have checkering under the dorsal stripe. They look more like parietalis to me...but yeah, the head on the left one looks different.
Stefan-A
03-09-2012, 07:04 PM
Both look like sirtalis of some description to me (is that a bit of a cop out? "sirtalis of some description" is fairly vague).
Clear white supralabials with no markings, black post-ocular stripe, white bar on the preocular scales, lateral stripe in rows 3 and 4, no parietal spots. Just saying.




It's one T. s. sirtalis and one T. sauritus. If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say T. sauritus sauritus. As for the speculation that one is a parietalis. Those appear to be wildcaught and the ranges of T. s. parietalis and T. sauritus don't overlap.
EasternGirl
03-09-2012, 07:31 PM
43634364 T.s.sirtalis
BUSHSNAKE
03-09-2012, 09:02 PM
eastern ribbon and eastern garter
chris-uk
03-10-2012, 02:34 AM
eastern ribbon and eastern garter
If Rod has found them in a shop over here they'd probably just be calling them "Eastern garters" ;)
Or that could be too precise for some shops, I expect some would just label them as "snakes".... grrrr.

I can't give a better guess than anyone else had from the pics, but I stand by my statement that I like the head colour of the one in front. The rusty top and whitish jaw line looks good.
Natrix
03-10-2012, 04:24 AM
Ok guys, front one is a young Northern Ribbon Snake, Thamnophis sauritus septentrionalis,4371 and the back one is a young Eastern Garter Snake, Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis,4372 Heres the link Telling Garter Snakes and Ribbon Snakes Apart - gartersnake.info (http://www.gartersnake.info/articles/telling_garter.php) Hope you had fun;)
Stefan-A
03-10-2012, 12:12 PM
Well, there we go.
ssssnakeluvr
03-10-2012, 12:26 PM
Stefan has it.... eastern and a ribbon. I have seen easterns with that type of pattern....I have a young one from last year witht he bars on the neck, almost looks like a Chicago garter!
EasternGirl
03-10-2012, 02:09 PM
I have only seen pics of them from states far north of here...all of the easterns around here are more of a tan or lighter brown with dark brown checkering patterns under the dorsal stripe, or a spotted pattern...or they can also be a greenish color. Also, most of the literature you find on easterns describes the checkering when discussing IDing them...that and the three stripes, and the 7 supralabials. Another thing that threw me off was the top of the head. There is no pattern on the top of the head in the eastern in that pic...now, maybe I can't see it... my easterns have a pattern on the top of the head. I guess I am going to have to go to a northern state at some point and go herping for easterns.
Natrix
03-10-2012, 02:17 PM
"If Rod has found them in a shop over here they'd probably just be calling them "Eastern garters" ;)"

It would have been a bl**dy miracle! :D