Guppies

[JodiLeigh]

So like I mentioned before I was planning on getting a pair of guppies to breed and feed the fry to Manny. well I finally got them and took some pictures for you to see:

4291429242934294

And here is the tank I have them in:

4295

I've not put the stones in yet (they need a clean) but I kinda like it without and getting a little filter and a few more plants soon.

The heater is set to 23 degrees, I have some brine shrimp to feed them(getting some fish flakes when I get the other stuff) and the male has been following the female round all day he he

What do you guys think?

[Natrix]

So like I mentioned before I was planning on getting a pair of guppies to breed and feed the fry to Manny. well I finally got them and took some pictures for you to see:

4291429242934294

And here is the tank I have them in:

4295

I've not put the stones in yet (they need a clean) but I kinda like it without and getting a little filter and a few more plants soon.

The heater is set to 23 degrees, I have some brine shrimp to feed them(getting some fish flakes when I get the other stuff) and the male has been following the female round all day he he

What do you guys think?
one male to three females would be good. They look a little lost in that tank. You could have quite a few in there. ;)

[JodiLeigh]

one male to three females would be good. They look a little lost in that tank. You could have quite a few in there. ;)

I know yeah! Shall have to find some cool little decorations and stuff to make it more cosy ha ha. I only had enough change on me for those two but when I go back for all the other stuff I will get some more.

Also I was thinking of getting a couple of another type of fish that can be put with them to make it more interesting but not sure what to get, will have a nosy, see what there is and ask the shop keeper what I can put with them.

[mikem]

if you get other fish, make sure they won't eat the baby guppies! maybe stick another small plant or two in there when you get the chance. that'll give the little ones more hiding spots. i've been thinking about doing this too. i need to look into it! so much to do, so little time :eek:

[JodiLeigh]

if you get other fish, make sure they won't eat the baby guppies! maybe stick another small plant or two in there when you get the chance. that'll give the little ones more hiding spots. i've been thinking about doing this too. i need to look into it! so much to do, so little time :eek:

I'm going to get some small fish, maybe even smaller then guppies also I will be putting a divider in when the female is ready to drop so she is separate, then after the drop I will move her from the side with all the newly born fry to the side with the adults.

[Light of Dae]

Yea you can get WAY more fishies in there.. If you have only a pair, it's almost not worth the wait. lol you could get a single male beta and about 3 male guppies n at least 9 or more female guppies. As well you could get some platys as they are safe fish to feed as well n breed quite well, again to the ratio of 1male to 3females. As for an algae eater avoid the cute little gold ones as they are mean n will take chunks out of any fish that comes near them. Get a catfish like one or the plain pleco.

[Selkielass]

Get five females and a bunch of plants and you'll have a hundred in a month or two.
Smaller fish will still eat fry if they can- the Tetras I had in my tank were like little sharks.
Lots of 'fluffy' leafy plants I've found are the best protection for lively fry- ones that don't swim well enough to take advantage of generous cover are best culled early anyway.

[JodiLeigh]

Yea you can get WAY more fishies in there.. If you have only a pair, it's almost not worth the wait. lol you could get a single male beta and about 3 male guppies n at least 9 or more female guppies. As well you could get some platys as they are safe fish to feed as well n breed quite well, again to the ratio of 1male to 3females. As for an algae eater avoid the cute little gold ones as they are mean n will take chunks out of any fish that comes near them. Get a catfish like one or the plain pleco.

I was told they would fight if I had more then one male, I will get another two females when I go back.

OH YES! I forgot about platys, I might get some of them then actually then he will ave a nice variety.

It does look bigger as well because it doesn't have any stones or other plants in yet, I'll see what it looks like with them first before buying too many fish.

[JodiLeigh]

Get five females and a bunch of plants and you'll have a hundred in a month or two.
Smaller fish will still eat fry if they can- the Tetras I had in my tank were like little sharks.
Lots of 'fluffy' leafy plants I've found are the best protection for lively fry- ones that don't swim well enough to take advantage of generous cover are best culled early anyway.

Yes I was thinking that, I do prefer the look of the finer more dense plants then the more branch like ones. I don't think I will be culling as they will just be fed to Manny so doesn't matter to him whether they swim well or not.

[Light of Dae]

They will not fight. There is lots of room, I have seen lots of tanks that were over crowed n still they didn't fight. You're possibly thinking about Betas. One male Beta will add an awesome splash of color, I've seen it work just fine in multiple tanks. Pet stores keep LOTS of males together without them fighting, The only way I could see there being an issue is if you reversed the ratio n had 3males to 1 female. I could see that as n issue. But so long as there are lots of females to go around, the men share just fine.

Just remember, male fish are like wh0res, they like a variety of women at there disposal.

The male fish views his females as 'Lays' chips, can't have just one!

[JodiLeigh]

They will not fight. There is lots of room, I have seen lots of tanks that were over crowed n still they didn't fight. You're possibly thinking about Betas. One male Beta will add an awesome splash of color, I've seen it work just fine in multiple tanks. Pet stores keep LOTS of males together without them fighting, The only way I could see there being an issue is if you reversed the ratio n had 3males to 1 female. I could see that as n issue. But so long as there are lots of females to go around, the men share just fine.

Just remember, male fish are like wh0res, they like a variety of women at there disposal.

The male fish views his females as 'Lays' chips, can't have just one!

HA HA HA HA I see, I will have to get a nice colour variety of lots of female guppies then and get another male.

[Selkielass]

Don't worry about culling- I meant that weak fry will get eaten by other fish, healthy fry will dissappear into coarse gravel or fine vegetation. You will have lots of little ones surviving without separating the females if you provide plenty of cover.

I keep fancies for food and I find that my survivors tend to be scarlet tailed, tho I have introduced spotted, tequila sunset, and black with yellow fin genetics by culling all females except the new fancy ones, the red ruffled fantails just keep on overpowering all the other genes.

[chris-uk]

You can't add anything to that tank without effective filtration and without cycling the tank to establish the right bacteria to remove the ammonia that the fish produce. Remember that these fish are secreting ammonia and when the ammonia gets to even a relatively low concentration it will start to kill the fish. The filter isn't just to keep the water looking clean it is the main place that the the the biological filtration (conversion of ammonia to nitrite then the nitrite to nitrate). The gravel is also important for the biological filtration.
If you haven't got filters and a cycled tank the only way to stop the ammonia killing the fish is to do almost daily water changes.

[kimbosaur]

I totally agree with Chris! How many litres is your tank?

I think you should definitely buy a filter and cycle the tank with the two fish you have in there (depending on how big the tank actually is). If you keep a smaller bio-load until your tank cycles, you'll have much less headache for sure. Overstocking tanks greatly increases the likelihood that the entire thing will crash and most or all your fish will die nearly instantly. I've had it happen before and it really sucks. I put three guppies in a 9 litre cycled and established tank that previously held only one betta fish and they literally died hours after their first feeding. Even though the tank was established (naturally planted and running for over a year), it previously held a much smaller bio-load and couldn't break down the excess ammonia fast enough.

Also, overstocking the tank highly increases the chances for fungal, bacterial and parasitic infections that could be passed onto your snakes. It might be just me seeing the tank as smaller than it actually is, but if you want a sustainable source of food for your snakes, I would go bigger and have the tank cycled before adding fish. It's best to do it right the first time than to have to spend more money later on trying to fix it. :)

[EasternGirl]

My snakes have absolutely no interest in live fish. I am happy about this though, as I do not need one more thing to take care of in this house! Looks good Jodi...good luck with your fish project.

[JodiLeigh]

I totally agree with Chris! How many litres is your tank?

I think you should definitely buy a filter and cycle the tank with the two fish you have in there (depending on how big the tank actually is). If you keep a smaller bio-load until your tank cycles, you'll have much less headache for sure. Overstocking tanks greatly increases the likelihood that the entire thing will crash and most or all your fish will die nearly instantly. I've had it happen before and it really sucks. I put three guppies in a 9 litre cycled and established tank that previously held only one betta fish and they literally died hours after their first feeding. Even though the tank was established (naturally planted and running for over a year), it previously held a much smaller bio-load and couldn't break down the excess ammonia fast enough.

Also, overstocking the tank highly increases the chances for fungal, bacterial and parasitic infections that could be passed onto your snakes. It might be just me seeing the tank as smaller than it actually is, but if you want a sustainable source of food for your snakes, I would go bigger and have the tank cycled before adding fish. It's best to do it right the first time than to have to spend more money later on trying to fix it. :)

I've had my eyes on a filter since before I got the fish, just waiting till I have enough money. The tank is 12 litres. I have yet to cleana nd put in the stones. What does cycled mean?

I thought I had researched about them enough but clearly I haven't so let's start from the beginning . . .

12 Litres should be big enough for one male guppy and three female guppies?

How important is the gravel and why?

Do I need a specific kind of filter or will just a normal little internal box one do?

What is a "small bio-load"?

Do you have any pictures of your set up?

Thank you for the help so far and hope I can fix this before they get ill or die :/

[JodiLeigh]

My snakes have absolutely no interest in live fish. I am happy about this though, as I do not need one more thing to take care of in this house! Looks good Jodi...good luck with your fish project.

Thank you :)

I've wanted fish for a while now so it's a pleasure finally having some, the fact they can be used for food for Manny is a bonus!

I just hope I get it right before something goes wrong :/

[EasternGirl]

You will...as with everything in life, it takes a while to learn everything when you are starting something new...you'll get it figured out. :)

[JodiLeigh]

Oh also what's the ideal PH for guppies? I have read different things from different sites and yet to do a test.

Also how to I adjust this if it needs correcting?

The temperature is 23 degrees C and I feed them(so far)brine shrimp erm and that's all I can say for now

[chris-uk]

I've had my eyes on a filter since before I got the fish, just waiting till I have enough money. The tank is 12 litres. I have yet to cleana nd put in the stones. What does cycled mean?

Cycled is the term used for preparing a tank so that it contains the bacteria needed to convert the excretions from the fish (ammonia) into less harmful chemicals. Basically your fish spend their days and nights peeing in the water, in a lake or stream the pee flows away, in a tank you need to remove it. Cycling a tank can take months. Google "fishless tank cycling" and you should find some descriptions of how I cycled my tank by adding ammonia from a bottle over 6 weeks.

I thought I had researched about them enough but clearly I haven't so let's start from the beginning . . .

12 Litres should be big enough for one male guppy and three female guppies?

A lot of aquarists (I just tinker a bit and don't take the fish too seriously) would consider anything smaller than 40l unsuitable for keeping anything more than a single fish. For someone who's primary reason for keeping fish is to feed the young to a snake, it's debatable whether you have enough volume. I've not bred guppies, so can't comment about specific requirements. They are supposed to be easy to breed, but will need the correct water conditions to feel frisky.
Another thing with smaller tanks is that the chemical and biological balance is much more fragile, because there is less water to buffer the levels - a fish that excretes 5ml of ammonia in my 60l will increase the concentration less than the same fish in your 12l tank.

How important is the gravel and why?
The bacteria in mentioned above, they live on surfaces, not free in the water. The gravel is one place that the bacteria will colonise, the other major place is the filter sponge.

Do I need a specific kind of filter or will just a normal little internal box one do?
An internal filter will be fine in a small tank. I've got an internal filter in my 60l tank (as well as the filter that came with it that hangs of the back), an external canister filter is only necessary for larger tanks (although I'm thinking about replacing both mine with a single external which will be quieter and easier to maintain).

What is a "small bio-load"?
The bigger the fish, the more fish, the more fish pee. That's often termed the bio-load - how much life are you trying to support in the tank.


Do you have any pictures of your set up?

Thank you for the help so far and hope I can fix this before they get ill or die :/

Last thing, are you using untreated tap water? The chlorine in our water isn't good for fish. Best thing is to treat all the water you put in the tank with a conditioner which removes the chlorine, you can also stand the water in a clean bucket overnight and the chlorine will evaporate off.

Keeping fish is about keeping the water chemistry right, and it's much more difficult than keeping snakes. My cycled tank has been a nightmare since Christmas, I got lazy and ended up with an algae bloom, and from there I've be struggling to keep the tank balanced. In the last month I've lost 7 fish out of 16 to white spot disease and unexplained deaths. Luckily our beta is still okay, it's been tetras and panda corys I've lost.

[kimbosaur]

Sorry, I didn't mean to freak you out or anything!! Guppies are pretty hardy fish and with the two fish you have in there now, you should be able to get through cycling with no problems! The problems that I was talking about were what would happen if you added more fish right away and overstock the tank.

What does cycled mean?
Chris explained cycling pretty well. Fish waste and leftover food creates ammonia, which is basically toxic. The more fish you have, the higher your ammonia levels will be in the beginning. "Cycling" is the process where your "good" bacteria establishes itself in the tank. This bacteria is what naturally breaks the toxins down. This is the natural filtering process.

The main purpose of a mechanical filter is basically to aid this natural process. In every filter, there will be a type of media where the bacteria lives. Different filters use different kinds of media (i.e. a sponge cartridge, bio-balls, etc.) The filter sucks up waste so that the bacteria bed can break it down.

How important is the gravel and why?
The gravel basically provides more places for the good bacteria to live. Think of it like another filter. The only thing is, the gravel is home to good bacteria AND bad bacteria, so it does need to be vacuumed once in a while. It's up to you if you want to add it.

Do I need a specific kind of filter or will just a normal little internal box one do?
It's really up to you. A better filter means less work for you in maintenance, and you can possibly keep some more fish with it.

What is a "small bio-load"?
A bio-load is basically the "load" that your tank has to support. A small bio-load basically means there isn't too much burden on the bio-filter (or your bacteria colony).

[kimbosaur]

Chris totally beat me to it!! I also wanted to add that guppies are really hardy fish. I wouldn't worry too much about temperatures and PH. Many sites I've seen say that they will breed in any conditions, but this is my personal experience with them:

1 gallon (~4 litres):
- 1 pair produced 0 babies
- (could have been that one or both fish were just infertile, not too sure)

10 gallon (~38 litres):
- I think I started with about 3-4 fish
- after the guppies started reproducing, the population remained steady at around 8 fish (not the same 8 fish)

25 gallon (~95 litres):
- naturally planted tank
- originally started with two adult pairs- now have a gazillion babies (too many to count)

Dug up an older picture of it:http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg848/scaled.php?server=848&filename=dsc0135fr.jpg&res=mediumIt has been relatively neglected and is now very overgrown and definitely over-populated with guppy babies.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg844/scaled.php?server=844&filename=dsc0190dc.jpg&res=mediumBaby guppy. :) You can see kind of seen what how overgrown the tank is in this picture. They've reached the surface.

In my 5 gallon tank (~19 litres), I felt I was maxed out at 7 males, and the tank was naturally planted as well. Hope that helps. :)

[Jeff B]

Nice looking guppies, don't get to attached to the garter food though, lol

[JodiLeigh]

Ok I think I get it now.

I am going to buy a little filter next week which comes with an air pump. Is an air pump safe? It will help oxygenate the water but it won't negatively affect anything else will it?

Until then every other day I am replacing some of the old dirty water with fresh tap water (boiled then cooled) and scooping out any debris out with the net.

How do I test to make sure the water is getting better? I need some kind of test kit but what am I testing for, amonia?

I definitely think the male is comfortable in the tank as he has been very frisky; following the female around all the time, flicking his anal fin forward and getting really close to her.

Oh and putting the gravel in tonight after it's been thoroughly cleaned.

[kimbosaur]

To be honest with you, with guppies, I don't bother with testing. I just play it by ear by observing the fish.

It obviously is better to though. You would have to test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, in that order. In the beginning, there's no point in testing for nitrites or nitrates, just ammonia. Once your ammonia reaches 0, then you can start looking out for the other two.

[JodiLeigh]

To be honest with you, with guppies, I don't bother with testing. I just play it by ear by observing the fish.

It obviously is better to though. You would have to test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, in that order. In the beginning, there's no point in testing for nitrites or nitrates, just ammonia. Once your ammonia reaches 0, then you can start looking out for the other two.

Ok thank you! =] And how to I do that? What do I look for? I really have no clue :/

[chris-uk]

There's test kits available, for what you're asking the most readily available kit is an "API Master Test Kit", costs around £20.
An API test kits will cost you around £7, the master kit includes 4 tests. They last forever, I've had my tests since September and still plenty left.
What Kimberly is saying about testing is that with guppies being hardy fish its not crucial as long as you are looking out for the signs that they are struggling with ammonia levels rising.

The air pump isn't too crucial, if the filter is disturbing the water surface it should be enough to keep the oxygen level right.

[RicMartin]

Well, by the time I got to this thread you got it all covered, guys, good job!

Still, for my 2 ¢, I will share this story:

I started a guppy tank a few years ago, when I thought of getting garters, because I read that I would need them.
I googled my way to some great fancy guppy sites, and I found this little fish shop in San Francisco, where a guy from Hong Kong told me that he couldn't sell me his expensive guppy fish without me first bringing him a sample of my fish-tank's water.
He wanted to make sure I wasn't going to kill his fish by neglecting the water. Mentioning garters to him was out of the question.

Turns out that in Hong Kong there's quite a cult-following for small fishtanks with six inches or so of light, calcium-heavy, gravel; full of Java Ferns, Java moss, and faster growing water plants. If the tank has the right load of cycle bacteria, and some snails, then, even without filters (I use one), they break down the ammonia and the plants take up the byproducts of that, leaving no food for algae to even grow, while also hyper-oxygenating the tank. The result is a tank that only needs a partial water change once a month, yet it's much healthier and stable water than what one gets from the high-maintainance, high chemical, style of fish-keeping.

The plants also create a darker place, less stressful, with plenty of hides for fry. I was told to keep many females (3 or more) to a male, or I'd lose my female due to the constant harassment from the male. If not breeding you can have two tanks and separate them by gender. Males are not territorial if there are lots of them. Feed only once a day and not a lot. They will snack on some plants. If the sand gets covered with uneaten food and dirt, the system is not working. a slice of cucumber or zucchini will give your fish a good extra snack, it will also attract the snails.

When the snails over-breed, which they will do if they are good mollusks, you can use the cucumber to catch them.

My tank became two tanks thru the years, and now I'm back to just one.
My garters have not used them at all, my scrubs all have eaten fillet right away, so far, fingers crossed!.
I love my guppies now, though, so Im keeping them.
My only addition to the Hong Kong formula: Distilled Water.
We have sulfur in the water here; good for your skin, bad for the tank's bacteria.

Sorry for the very longish post.

[kimbosaur]

Turns out that in Hong Kong there's quite a cult-following for small fishtanks with six inches or so of light, calcium-heavy, gravel; full of Java Ferns, Java moss, and faster growing water plants. If the tank has the right load of cycle bacteria, and some snails, then, even without filters (I use one), they break down the ammonia and the plants take up the byproducts of that, leaving no food for algae to even grow, while also hyper-oxygenating the tank. The result is a tank that only needs a partial water change once a month, yet it's much healthier and stable water than what one gets from the high-maintainance, high chemical, style of fish-keeping.


Sounds very much like a Walstad Natural Planted tank! I followed these instructions (http://thegab.org/Plants/step-by-step-setting-up-a-walstad-type-natural-planted-tank.html) for my 10 gallon and the plant growth boomed (mostly heavy root feeders like swords). My tank now is still planted in top soil but I cheated and added a filter. :D

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

My little Wandering loves to eat my live guppies. Its a good thing I breed them!!!

[JodiLeigh]

Ok now have the filter, gravel, more plants and two more females. Here is my tanks now:

4448

Thank you everyone for all the advice and Kimberly, very nice tank! Thank your for sharing pictures.

The filter isn't great but seems to be doing it's job. I found those shells too so thought I'd put those in too, I think they look quite nice.

Well over all so far I am pleased, it looks cool now sat on my shelf and the guppies seem happy.

I also bought a 6 in 1 test strip kit and the water, even before the filter and gravel, was ok. I'm going to do another test in about a week.

What do you guys think?

=]

[mikem]

i'm no guppy expert, but i think your tank looks nice :)

[JodiLeigh]

i'm no guppy expert, but i think your tank looks nice :)

Thank you :D

[EasternGirl]

Yes, It looks nice. I would love to have some guppies for my snakes too...but I really do not need to be taking anything else on at the moment!

[JodiLeigh]

Yes, It looks nice. I would love to have some guppies for my snakes too...but I really do not need to be taking anything else on at the moment!

Thank you :D

I have just got some close ups of all my fish, will post them soon.

The first female I got is definitely gravid (they use this term with guppies too, how handy!) as you will see from the pictures.