Where does it all go?

[gregmonsta]

:rolleyes: rhetorical question ... the answer is .... somewhere.

Actually I just spent a few days accounting of sorts. I completely cleaned up my hotmail account and compiled a databank on my snake-related expenses (including estimated electricity use, etc). It appears that since 2007 I have spent approximately £3532.69 on my snakey friends.

:rolleyes: The scary thing is that over the same period simple cat maintenance for one little cat has cost me even more!!! I estimate £4000+ ...

Moral of the story ... sell cat - buy more snakes :eek:

Joking, of course.

[Stefan-A]

About €6000-7000 since 1990 or 1991. That includes animals, transportation costs, lamps, heat pads and cables, tubs, boxes, tweezers, tongs, literature, food, dietary supplements, substrates etc. The electricity currently costs about €160 per year.

I made an almost complete list of the costs in October, when this topic came up on another forum, but now I can't find it.

[mikem]

i don't even want to think about what i've spent :eek: at least $500 since the beginning of the year. and it's only at the end of february. /cry

[guidofatherof5]

i don't even want to think about what i've spent :eek: at least $500 since the beginning of the year. and it's only at the end of february. /cry

Word. :D

[kibakiba]

Steve's probably spent well over $10k ;)

[chris-uk]

Threads like this can never come to any good.

Made me think though. Having only started spending money on snakes in September it's relatively easy to tot up the costs in my head. The starting up period has got to be the most expensive, getting vivs setup with heat, stats, plants, hides, bowls, etc. That's before we get to the snakes themselves. So totals up to somewhere between £750 and £850 since September.

Greg is right about the cat though, he cost me about £450 in August alone. His running costs are around £75/month (he has a urinary condition which needs medicated food once a day), so the cat has cost more than the snakes.

[katach]

I spent $50 today alone to get ready for the new one. Repti bark isn't cheap, plus a new water dish and a red light. I wanted to see her though and she would get lost in the aspen.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...seriously, $70 today alone just to get ready for the new one...and I also bought some other things the other day for him...so probably $80 for him alone so far...and I know I have spent a couple of thousand in the past two years...when you look at all the costs combined for tanks, substrate, food, plants, hides, electricity, add in a couple of vet bills. Oh lord...add in my dog, my cats, the guinea pigs...I know I'm up over $5,000 in two years easy. My dog had one vet bill that was like $600. I'm always complaining I have no money...I should just feed my animals my money...less shopping...

[mikem]

fill their bowls up with loose change. that way you can reuse it after they're...*ahem*...done with it.

my poor cat had a bad year back in 2010. early in the year he had a uti that took a couple visits to clear up. then, he had to have a blood transfusion in august of that year. those aren't cheap. but he's worth it. he's my little grey shadow.

[EasternGirl]

Well...I think the guinea pigs might have mites and the dog needs his "misters" chopped off (sorry fellows)...he is overdue and getting quite snippy. Luckily, I have insurance that will cover the dog...

[MasSalvaje]

Threads like this can never come to any good.

Not completely so my friend. It is this very topic that got me thinking about what I can do to not only cut down the out of pocket expenses but also reduce the massive footprint our captive pets can have on the environment. I don't have any hard facts or data backing up this claim but my guess is that a garter in captivity results in 100x the environmental strain when compared to their wild counterparts, and I believe that to be a conservative estimate. I feel most if not all of us here think of ourselves as a group that at least attempts to do our part to preserve the amazing resources around us so I am not calling out any individuals or any group, just suggesting that as we look at different ways to save money we could also look at ways to minimize the negative impact our hobby has on the environment.

This is something I have thought about for awhile and as a result I am currently in the design stage of developing an edifice on my lot that is as close as possible to being off the grid, which would not only minimize my impact on the environment but would also go a long way in reducing the monetary cost of my hobby over the long run.

-Thomas

[Stefan-A]

I don't have any hard facts or data backing up this claim but my guess is that a garter in captivity results in 100x the environmental strain when compared to their wild counterparts, and I believe that to be a conservative estimate.
The wild counterpart puts no strain on the environment at all, but you are right, the captive population does.

Energy production, electrical devices, enclosures, tools, decoration, substrates, food, water, etc. all add up to a substantial amount of resources.

[mikem]

that's true with any animal in captivity.

[Stefan-A]

that's true with any animal in captivity.
It certainly is. Some animals are worse than others. It's my understanding that invertebrates, fish and amphibians are the least environmentally unfriendly.

[gregmonsta]

Certainly, monetarily and environmentally, putting these accounts together is a good measure of impact. My food shopping habbits and my choice of substrate have changed over the years. All of my rodents I buy once a year in one large bulk order now (instead of repeated smaller purchases). My substrate requirements are set to stay as a once every 1.5 years with those 20kg bags (as opposed to the bi-monthly hunt for 'cheap' bags of carefresh).
Actually, my main reason for getting into these calculations are a safety net - first and foremost. I'm keeping count of everything to avoid any future complications if the taxman comes looking in the future. I expect some breeding successes somewhere down the line (I've got to .... the odds have to work out eventually :rolleyes:) and it's important to make sure that they can't decide to say I've made 'millions' when that's not the case. The burden of proof unfortunately would land on myself, the 'unsuspecting' hobbyist. Considering I have a website, and intend to be a presence at UK shows, I could see myself becoming the target for an audit despite probably never making a profit.
I can see someone with a pair or two generating the occasional litter not having to worry but I will be approaching the 20 snake mark in September. Even breeding these for my own personal pleasure there will be a considerable amount of 'product' as it would appear to an outside observer.
Best to start early with this sort of game.

[EasternGirl]

But at the same time..if you wanted to look at it from a different viewpoint...I mean not economically, of course...which is kind of missing the point for this thread...but I am saying that if we look at our hobby as having a negative impact on the environment...and then start to feel a little guilty, could we not then look at what our hobby does to also help to save the lives of snakes that might not make it in the wild? Look at all of the snakes that so many of us have rescued. I for one, know that Seeley and Cee Cee would not have survived had I not taken them in. We discussed in another thread the possibility that the San Fran garters only hope for survival at this point might be to allow experienced hobbyist and breeders to take them into captivity to save them from going into extinction in the wild. Totally off the point of finances...I know. I just wanted to throw in a little..."We do something good for the snakes"...two cents there.

[Stefan-A]

Sure, you can look at it as an animal protection issue, instead of an environmental protection issue.

[mikem]

the amount of resources we use to care for animals is nothing compared to what we use as humans for ourselves. it doesn't even compare.

[EasternGirl]

Well, I know it sounds like I'm just looking for a cheap way to get out of avoiding the environmental issue...it's not that. Of course I care about the environment...but I guess I care about rescuing snakes more than I care about the impact that has on the environment. If that makes any sense. I wouldn't just go around plucking garters out of the environment for the heck of it...I am against doing that...as I have said in other threads, there needs to be a balance, we must be responsible in herping...we shouldn't be removing garters left and right just for our own benefit. I have my W/C easterns because I felt they would not survive if left in the wild. Not saying there is anything wrong with taking home a pet now and again...there just needs to be a balance and some responsible herping.

[chris-uk]

Just to set it straight - my comment about threads like this never coming to any good... that's just a reflection on the fact that most of us would rather not consider the cost of our garters.

As for the environmental impact of our garters, sure there's an impact, especially for any snake that isn't caught/bred locally. I can honestly say that the environmental considerations of my garters is not something that weighs heavily on my mind. I drive somewhere around 30k miles a year, compared to that the environmental cost of keeping some snakes is negligible. In an ideal world I'd have a nice house in a patch of countryside with wind and hydro power - but that's more so I've got a good place to hole up in the event of a zombie apocalypse.


I'm keeping count of everything to avoid any future complications if the taxman comes looking in the future.
That's forward planning. I'd not considered that aspect.

[MasSalvaje]

the amount of resources we use to care for animals is nothing compared to what we use as humans for ourselves. it doesn't even compare.

I don't think anyone would argue with you on that one, but does that mean it doesn't matter or that we shouldn't at least attempt to minimize our environmental cost?


As for the environmental impact of our garters, sure there's an impact, especially for any snake that isn't caught/bred locally. I can honestly say that the environmental considerations of my garters is not something that weighs heavily on my mind. I drive somewhere around 30k miles a year, compared to that the environmental cost of keeping some snakes is negligible. In an ideal world I'd have a nice house in a patch of countryside with wind and hydro power - but that's more so I've got a good place to hole up in the event of a zombie apocalypse.

By no means am I trying to tell everyone to get rid of their snakes and other pets in order to save the planet or even that you should sacrifice monetary cost efficiency in order to minimize your environmental costs. I am as much of an offender as anyone out there. I was merely illustrating the fact that monetary costs are only part of the larger picture.

-Thomas

[mikem]

i'm not sure where i was going with that. i think i was trying to say that we shouldn't worry so much about what we expend on our pets, but to step back, look at it globally and worry about reducing our impact on the enviroment overall. yes, you can do your best as an individual to minimize the cost, but it takes many brush strokes to paint a picture. i think that's what i'm trying to say, lol :D

[MasSalvaje]

Well said. Might I also add that a picture begins with a single stroke, you have to start somewhere.