First time here.

[kueluck]

My first post and this is my first time as keeper of the snake, or should I say slave to a snake since all he/she has to do is sit there and look pretty and I will wait on em’ hand and foot, literally. Today I stood there and hovered over the tank saying to myself, eat the worm, eat the worm, pleeeeease eat the worm, and TA-DAHHHH, it ate the worm. This made me the happiest person in the world. Okay, maybe that’s a little exaggerated, but just a little. I found this little one on Friday when we had a crazy warm day here in NC and this is the first time it ate. I’ve been trying worms every night, also guppies with no luck, but today a worm was consumed. I’ve also got some fresh tilapia and I’m hoping for the best. Some say feed every day, some say feed 3 times a week, so question one is. How often do I feed. Also I’m thinking the snake is to small for pinkies so until it grows I guess I’ll have to work with the worms and fish. I’ve been reading care sheets since Friday and a real concern at this point is telling the difference between earth worms and red wriggles. Is there a for sure way to tell?42054206

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

Nice Storeria dekayi.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you on the forum.
Nice dekayi.
Here's a link to the care sheet which will help you with your worm question.
It's very important to feed the right worms.
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[mikem]

welcome! good to see another nc resident here! lovely little snake :)

[Selkielass]

What a pretty little Dekayi, I'd love to find one of those someday.

[infernalis]

Welcome aboard.

Yes that is certainly a Storeria Dekayi, not quite a garter snake, so the whole Pinkie/fish thing is out the window.

It will never be interested in fish of any kind.

As for heating, these snake are a cool temp snake and will avoid any heat, so for lighting I would recommend an L.E.D. light or a CFL (florescent) light.

They do require a slightly moist environment, or you will have shedding difficulties, since they primarily feed and move during the cool morning hours, early evening hours when their is abundant dew on the ground, then retreat under a hide during the peak sun period of the day.

In my experience, they make wonderful captives, and if yours is eating, then you are already heading in the right direction.

[gregmonsta]

Greetings :D

[chris-uk]

Welcome to the forum.

And Wayne, where have you been hiding? Well timed return to dish out the dekayi advice.

[EasternGirl]

Welcome to the forum! Lovely snake you have there! I would also love to have a dekayi someday. I do not know a lot about dekayis, but I know with my garters, the rule of thumb I follow with feeding is that I feed them enough to notice a little bulge in their stomach, and then I watch for the bulge to go down and then I feed again. Worms are digested pretty quickly, and dekayis are small, yours looks very small. If he is eating a whole worm...you could probably feed him a worm every 2 or 3 days...2 days if you see that bulge go down in his stomach. Unless someone disagrees? Could you show us a picture of one of the worms...just a pic of the worm? We can tell you if it is the right worm. Where are you getting the worms? We all get excited when our new snakes eat! I have often said..."Please eat...please eat..." lol.


Hey, Wayne! Nice to see you stranger!

[aquamentus_11]

that is so cool. i've only read about these. if i remember, they stay very small and i think they eat slugs, worms, snails, etc. sounds like a fairly soft-bodied diet. congrats on the little guy eating. what an awesome find.

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family!

[kueluck]

Wow……….First off thank you for the greeting. Second, the worms I have are from my yard, which is chemical free, no run off and completely safe. And they are not wrigglers, thanks guidofatherof5 for the link. Even my neighbors are chemical free folks and my back yard is backed up into the woods, this is were I found this little snake. Third, the snake ate last night and then again this morning. I was a little disappointed when I did more research and found out this is NOT a garter, because this means it is most likely an adult at 12.5 inches. My personal rule is not to remove adults from the wild since they are breeding stock. Critters have a hard enough time trying to survive. I’ll be returning it to the back yard when we have another nice warm day. So now I’m going to be on the look out for an Eastern Ribbon snake, which in May, Raleigh has a nice reptile show. This will be my first kept snake. I’ve always enjoyed finding them on camping trips, handle them for a while, take pics then let them go. When ever I find a snake on the road I bring them back to our home and release them in the woods, aka, back yard. Every time we go camping my trip is complete if I can handle a lizard, snake, frog and toad. I also have 3 cats (mix breeds), 2 Fowler’s toads (Bufo fowleri), 2 Grey Tree Frogs (Hyla chrysoscelis), and one husband who puts up with me and my “gang”. I’ll have a 29 long set up for the snake once I locate one.

[aquamentus_11]

good call. if there's any balance in the world, you'll find a great little eastern.

[kueluck]

We're headed down to Santee State Park &Charleston SC for the week and I'll have my eye out for a baby. I wouldprefer a c/b since I would trust it would be healthier, but if one comes my waywhile down there, I don’t think I can resist.

[aquamentus_11]

if that doesn't work out, you could ask around here. there are some people with 2011 babies still available. mine was born in July and she's still only about a foot long, so they'd still be small. the weather down there is warm enough to ship i would think.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice looking place.
Santee State Park located in Santee, SC (http://www.southcarolinaparks.com/santee/introduction.aspx)

[RedSidedSPR]

Figures It took a dekayi to bring Wayne out.

[EasternGirl]

Well...we would be happy to have you on the forum to chat with us and get to know us while you are looking for a new snake. We certainly have plenty of threads to read and conversations to join. We always enjoy having new members!

[InsanePirateDragon]

Yup, thats a Brown, I can send you a couple of more if you want.

We are always swimming in them here. I know someone who has a couple of them, only worm eaters.

And welcome to the forums, first time owner too.

[guidofatherof5]

Yup, thats a Brown, I can send you a couple of more if you want.

We are always swimming in them here. I know someone who has a couple of them, only worm eaters.

And welcome to the forums, first time owner too.

They also take slugs and snails.
Watch them pull snails right out of the shell in the wild.;)
Sweet snakes.

[kueluck]

I was looking for slugs yesterday after work since we just had rain but no luck. I did find some snails but I just couldn't figure out how they would eat them since they have they have a super crunchy coating.

They also take slugs and snails.
Watch them pull snails right out of the shell in the wild.;)
Sweet snakes.

[guidofatherof5]

Snail are probably not a good a choice as slugs.
I've read snail can carry a pretty heavy load as an intermediate parasite host.

[chris-uk]

They also take slugs and snails.
Watch them pull snails right out of the shell in the wild.;)
Sweet snakes.

I read the bit about feeding on snails and thought "I'd like to see a video of that". Unfortunately nothing seems to come up on YouTube or a simple web search, does anyone know if there is a video out there?

[kueluck]

Weather forecast for today is sunny and 75.......yeah for the snake, since it's warm enough to release back into the wild, but sad for me. I really like this little one, it has tons of personality. But it's just not right taking a healthy adult from the wild.

[guidofatherof5]

I read the bit about feeding on snails and thought "I'd like to see a video of that". Unfortunately nothing seems to come up on YouTube or a simple web search, does anyone know if there is a video out there?

I'll try to shoot some video once Spring arrives. I've only seen it happen once in the wild but I'll see what I can do.

[aquamentus_11]

they sound like a cool snake. very unique. if there's an adult around you, maybe poke around for a baby unless you have your heart set on a garter. not sure where to look for browns though. sounds like these other guys might know.

if you want to attract slugs, leave a pan of beer out in your yard overnight. it'll kill them and it's probably not good for the snake to eat beer-slugs so i'd put a screen over top of it. on the other hand, they might be like snake jello shots and could help break the ice between you and your new snake.

[kueluck]

And then the next thing you know is I've got a snake dancing on the table w/a lamp shade on it's head..........noooo thank you.
if you want to attract slugs, leave a pan of beer out in your yard overnight. it'll kill them and it's probably not good for the snake to eat beer-slugs so i'd put a screen over top of it. on the other hand, they might be like snake jello shots and could help break the ice between you and your new snake.

[kueluck]

On another note..........do Robins eat brown snakes? I was going to put it out this morning in the wet sunny grass, but there was a ton of Robins in the yard and I feared for it's life.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Not to sure, they might, the baby Browns are worm size t=so they're a prime target possibly.

[kueluck]

Yeahhh......my neighbor is going to get the little one and release him back into the wild. She'll watch over him to make sure nothing comes and gets 'em. Now I'll have to research for the perfect Ribbon snake viv.

[guidofatherof5]

On another note..........do Robins eat brown snakes? I was going to put it out this morning in the wet sunny grass, but there was a ton of Robins in the yard and I feared for it's life.

Yes they do especially during nesting time.

[kueluck]

Well my neighbor released him and watched him explore the area, then head into a crack in a log. Now in search of a c/b ribbon.

[guidofatherof5]

Well my neighbor released him and watched him explore the area, then head into a crack in a log. Now in search of a c/b ribbon.

Best wishes to the little brown.

Why are you set on getting a ribbon snake?
They are more of a specialized feeder and can be much more jumpy then many other Thamnophis species.

[kueluck]

The main reason is size. I only have a 29 long and can't go larger. The ribbons are one of the smaller garters, correct? From reading posts of others they sound like they are easy to handle and tame down quickly. I've also checked out lots of the youtube videos on them and it sounds like the right choice. Your input is well appreciated. Not sure what you mean by specialized feeders.

[guidofatherof5]

The main reason is size. I only have a 29 long and can't go larger. The ribbons are one of the smaller garters, correct? From reading posts of others they sound like they are easy to handle and tame down quickly. I've also checked out lots of the youtube videos on them and it sounds like the right choice. Your input is well appreciated. Not sure what you mean by specialized feeders.

I by no means have a lot of experience with ribbon snakes and I would be interested in hearing what some other members think.

[Stefan-A]

The main reason is size. I only have a 29 long and can't go larger. The ribbons are one of the smaller garters, correct? From reading posts of others they sound like they are easy to handle and tame down quickly. I've also checked out lots of the youtube videos on them and it sounds like the right choice. Your input is well appreciated. Not sure what you mean by specialized feeders.
They are not exactly among the smaller garters, they're pretty much medium size and for their size, they probably need more space than other garters. The reason why you may have gotten the impression that they are easy to handle and tame down quickly, is because it's so rare and people tend to make a bigger deal about it when they succeed. I wouldn't bother posting about managing to tame a T. elegans vagrans, for example, because they're all tame and very easy to handle.

Ribbon snakes are specialized in amphibians and amphibian larvae and it can be a real pain in the *** to get them to eat mice and outright impossible to get them to eat worms. Personally, I'd recommend a generalist, like T. sirtalis, T. radix or T. elegans.

[RedSidedSPR]

Biggest thamnophis I've ever seen was a ribbon.

[kueluck]

hhmmm...........maybe I need to state what I am looking for in a snake.
1. One that will tolerate, or even enjoy being handled.
2. One that eats pinkies, I can't feed something alive accept for worms or fish.
3. Will thrive in a 29 long tank
4. And prefer a native of NC (I also keep Cope's tree frogs & Fowler's toads)
Now if non of this applies I may have to go in the back yard and hunt down that little brown snake!

[guidofatherof5]

Snakes of North Carolina (http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_nc/snakes/snakes.html)

Not in your area but I would be amiss if I didn't suggest a T.radix (Plains Garter Snake)

[kueluck]

But would a 3ft long snake thrive in a 29 long tank?
Snakes of North Carolina (http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_nc/snakes/snakes.html)

Not in your area but I would be amiss if I didn't suggest a T.radix (Plains Garter Snake)

[kueluck]

............and I know that web-site very well, but thanks for the link.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yes, it would be ok in a 29 gallon I would think.

I'm in NC to btw

[Stefan-A]

A male probably would.

[RedSidedSPR]

Would the sex make a difference? 3 foot male, 3 foot female would have the same space requirements right?

[mikem]

represent! ^^

get an eastern garter. you can find them captive bred and wild caught and they adapt well to having human servants bringing them food and water.

[kueluck]

Sweet, now I just need to locate one, any ideas? In May Raleigh has the reptile show but I usualy don't see garters at shows.

[Stefan-A]

Would the sex make a difference? 3 foot male, 3 foot female would have the same space requirements right?
You're not going to find a 3 foot male.

[mikem]

i'm sure people here on the forums will have babies availabe later this year. also, scott felzer breeds them and is located in raleigh. that'll save you shipping since you're so close to him. albinogartersnake.com is his website.

edit: i'm talking about the garters.. not sure where to get cb ribbons.

[RedSidedSPR]

Sweet, now I just need to locate one, any ideas? In May Raleigh has the reptile show but I usualy don't see garters at shows.

I went to a Raleigh show last year, saw several table's with garters. They usually have a few.


You're not going to find a 3 foot male.

You will with some species.. but yeah


i know scott felzer breeds them and is located in raleigh. that'll save you shipping since you're so close to him. albinogartersnake.com is his website.

That's where I've gotten most of mine... I'm getting another from him soon. He's local to anyone in NC, which is an advantage to shipping price and risk. So I'd definitely go with him.

Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters (http://albinogartersnake.com)

EDIT: Yeah, if your talking about garters

[EasternGirl]

I have a three foot eastern female and a two and a half foot eastern male together in a 30 gallon and they are perfectly happy. I often move them into a 29L when I need to clean the 30 gallon and they are fine in there too. My female, the one who is 3 feet, lived happily in a 29L for many months. Also, most garters eat pinkies, fish and worms...many of us feed our garters frozen/thawed pinkies, fish fillet, and worms...but many get by without worms too. Although..I'll tell you, easterns like their live worms...a lot. Okay..I just reread that you are okay with feeding live worms...there wouldn't be anything you would feed a garter live other than worms or fish..and many garters don't eat live fish...mine don't.

[kueluck]

Male, female, it doesn't matter to me, I'm not going to breed, I just want to make sure that the 29 long will be enough space. And thanks for the link.

[kueluck]

I don't think it will save in shipping since a round trip to Raleigh will be about $50 in gas. It's 2 hours away.

[mikem]

Ah. Didn't realize you were that far away!

[kueluck]

Well first I need to convert my tank, right now it's planted with native plants just for looks. Also headed out Saturday for Charleston SC, staying at Santee State Park for the week, so this will give me a chance to plan out the tank, get supplies then take a day trip to Raleigh if any snakes are available. I don't want anything fancy, just healthy, that's why I figure a c/b would be better than w/c. Geez I'm kinda excited about this now..........THANK y'all!!

[EasternGirl]

It is very exciting planning for a new snake...and garters are wonderful! Hope you find a great one...welcome to our amazing world.

[mikem]

i still get excited getting new snakes! have fun in charleston! it's beautiful there :)

[snakehill]

I went to a Raleigh show last year, saw several table's with garters. They usually have a few.



You will with some species.. but yeah



That's where I've gotten most of mine... I'm getting another from him soon. He's local to anyone in NC, which is an advantage to shipping price and risk. So I'd definitely go with him.

Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters (http://albinogartersnake.com)

EDIT: Yeah, if your talking about garters Jesse what are getting from Scott? :confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

I don't think it will save in shipping since a round trip to Raleigh will be about $50 in gas. It's 2 hours away.

Oh. Well, there's always the shipping risk factor, but yeah, either way will probably cost the same. Lol


Jesse what are getting from Scott? :confused:

I'll have to see what he comes up with this spring.

[EasternGirl]

I'm like a kid on Christmas when I am getting a new snake!

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm like a kid on Christmas when I am getting a new snake!

F christmas, just gimme a snake.

[kueluck]

Headed to ReptiCon in Columbia SC this coming weekend and for my 25th wedding anniversary I'll be getting a snake. I love the garters, but what about a rough green snake? I will be limited to one snake in the house so I need to be sure on what I pick. Eastern Garter or Rough Green. What are pros and cons of these? I know you guys are all partial to the garters but I really do appreciate all your input.

[kibakiba]

Rough greens don't last very long in captivity and have a difficult diet.

[EasternGirl]

I don't really know anything about them. I do know that at the risk of sounding biased, with a garter, you will have this forum and our help in taking care of your new snake. Not that we would shun you or not help you if you had a different kind of snake...we just might not know a lot about another kind of snake...some people have experience with other kinds of snakes, it would depend on the kind of snake.

[chris-uk]

I've not kept rough greens, but in April's Practical Reptile Keeper there's an article where a comparison is made between rough greens and ribbons. They say in the article that rough greens can be difficult to keep because they aren't particularly hardy and feeding can be a problem (not sure exactly why, apparently some issue with the gut flora of rough greens).

[Natrix]

If you really want a 'green' snake then this should be robust enough for you?
Green Bush Ratsnake -- (Elaphe prasina) (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=green%20bush%20rat%20snake&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ratsnakes.com%2FEprasina.html&ei=gNpYT76XItSV8gPvtIzpDg&usg=AFQjCNGk7MViZa0NWWFUYOCD5jkgFOCmTw&sig2=bJCPOtCauUVPZLF4hGTzGQ&cad=rja)Other than that I think most would second what Marnie has said. There is a wealth of knowledge on here, don't be afraid to ask questions. Most Rough Green snakes are wild caught and don't do very well in captivity, They are certainly not a beginners snake. They are arborial in nature, so need space to climb they are better kept in small groups and have a specialist invertabrate diet. They need lots of foliage and fairly high humidity. The more secure they feel the better their chances of survival. Hope this helps? ;)

[chris-uk]

If we're on rat snakes... Our local shop has one of these in at the moment :
Japanese Ratsnake -- (Elaphe climacophora) (http://www.ratsnakes.com/Eclimacophora.html)

Beautiful green colours, maybe not as arboreal as a rough green, but the pattern of the scales is something that needs to be seen close up. I'd be tempted, but it's on the large side and I don't have room right now.

See, we may be garter folk, but we can help a little with other species. :)

[EasternGirl]

Very nice...looks kind of like a garter in the face.

[Natrix]

If we're on rat snakes... Our local shop has one of these in at the moment :
Japanese Ratsnake -- (Elaphe climacophora) (http://www.ratsnakes.com/Eclimacophora.html)

Beautiful green colours, maybe not as arboreal as a rough green, but the pattern of the scales is something that needs to be seen close up. I'd be tempted, but it's on the large side and I don't have room right now.
See, we may be garter folk, but we can help a little with other species. :)
What sort of price are they asking Chris?

[Natrix]

Very nice...looks kind of like a garter in the face. But not as nice as these4356 Tai Bamboo Ratsnake.;)

[chris-uk]

What sort of price are they asking Chris?
I think they're asking £160, not sure how old it is, it's not a neonate, looked to be around 3 feet already.
I'd not noticed it before, but it was out when I went in on Sunday and they said they'd had it in for a few months so may be a bit of wiggle room if you were interested. It's in KBN Reptiles in Coventry, they're relatively new and the website isn't great but I'd expect a quick response if you email: KBN Reptiles - Coventry - UK (http://www.kbnreptiles.co.uk/)

[Natrix]

It's nice Chris but a £160 nice:D I'd rather save my mony and buy a pair of unusual Thamnophis for less pennies;)
ps: Natrix natrix 30-35 euro = £30 tops = shipping and Elaphe prasina (Green Bush Ratsnake) 100-130 euro =£ 108 tops = shipping. These would purely be for show.;)

[chris-uk]

It's nice Chris but a £160 nice:D I'd rather save my mony and buy a pair of unusual Thamnophis for less pennies;)
My thoughts as well. £160 is a couple of very nice garters, which won't end up needing a big viv like the rat snake.

[Stefan-A]

You will with some species.. but yeah
Which ones?

[chris-uk]

Which ones?

Not sure if we're still just talking NC snakes here, but our male Cuitzeo (obviously not an NC native) is nearly 90cm, so not much shy of 3' and at less than 2 years old he's still growing.

[kueluck]

Still snakeless in NC. Went to the RepitCon in Columbia SC on our way home from vacation and they had 3 easterns...........that they removed from the WILD. Yup, they had 3 adult w/c easterns, and this really ****** me off!! I guess some people just don't give a crap, anyway................so my next try will be at the Reptile show in Raleigh the beginning of May. I guess it's just not my time yet, but at least I'll the tank all set up and ready to go!:)

[chris-uk]

Sounds like I should be saying, "better luck next show". You're time will come, because every garter will have it's day. :)

[kueluck]

I may have FINALLY located an eastern. There's a local reptile rescue here and I took over some dubia roaches for their beardies and other insect eating reptiles and while looking through the pythons, turtles, corn snakes, ring necks, bunnies and others, there he/she was. Watching me and my husband. The rescue founder may put this up for re-homing and I'm top on the list. He/she is eating and appears to be healthy so by the end of this weekend I should know if my tank will no longer be empty. Excited? A little, I'm not going to get my hopes up. But then the reptile show in next weekend in Raleigh and I am excited about that. I would love to have a young one, but then to rescue one would be great also. This is the first garter hes had in rescue and commented on how alert and curious it is. I told him to me, garters are the cats of the snake family. Very curious and social.

[guidofatherof5]

Rescuing a garter is a good thing. Hope you get it.

[kueluck]

Just got the call..............I'll be the proud new care giver of one garter snake. I'll know tomorrow if it's a boy or girl, kinda like waiting for the ultra sound tests. Now I'm excited!!

[guidofatherof5]

Looking forward to seeing the kid.

[chris-uk]

Just got the call..............I'll be the proud new care giver of one garter snake. I'll know tomorrow if it's a boy or girl, kinda like waiting for the ultra sound tests. Now I'm excited!!

Great, you'll enjoy it whether it's a boy or girl. :)

[EasternGirl]

That is so exciting! You're finally getting your eastern and it's a rescue snake which makes it even better. Congrats! We definitely need pics as soon as you can get some up. Easterns are awesome. :)

[mikem]

Awesome to hear! Glad you finally located one. Can't wait to see pics of him or her!! I'd take the ringnecks :D

Are you still going to the Raleigh show? I wanted to make the trip there soooo bad, but "unfortunately" I'm going to an all day music event with a few friends. What makes it worse is that I'm not into any of the bands playing... none. Gah, I wish I could bail out..lol!

[kueluck]

It's a girl. I'll be picking her up later on this morning. And since it's a girl I guess I'll have just one snake since my 29 long isn't big enough for two. My original plan was to have 2 males, but like most of my plans it's not going to pan out. Still going to the Raleigh show since I can always use viv items, and pinkies. And the little ringneck isn't an option, it already has a home.

[kueluck]

Got her home, in the tank and covered so she can calm down. When I asked the guy why he isn't gonna release her he said because I mentioned that I wanted a garter snake. So when asked if she was healthy enough to be release he said yes. She had a big chunk of her tail chopped off and he wanted to make sure it was healed up before releasing her. So I may release her back into the wild since she is an adult, I haven't decided yet what to do. Last time she ate was 2 days ago, he feed her a fuzzy, and last shed was about 3 weeks.

[guidofatherof5]

If you don't know where she's from(exact location) I would suggest you keep her.
Better for her and all the other snakes she may come in contact with. No need to introduce new pathogens to her or the other snakes.
Just my opinion.

[kueluck]

I named her, no turning back now. Location at this thread http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/10373-gails-garter-snake-kind-silly.html