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View Full Version : Sex/species again


angrygamer
02-19-2012, 05:43 PM
To add, I'm also trying to correct the formatting now, it didn't come out as previewed.

Hey guys. Haven't posted in a bit, it's been a stressful two weeks. I got my dad to take a few pics because I still really don't know what Glyph is. It was a last minute sort of thing and my dad and I were both tired and he was messing with the macro lens on his camera and then he had to go. Some pics I took were blurry and really not even worth posting (his macro lens is HEAVY) and then some pics were taken in the wrong format. grr. But considering that the vet was wrong with pretty much everything else she said, it's hard to say whether Glyph is a male Radix. I haven't fussed with this for a while.


http://i.imgur.com/UzpKah.jpg


Comparing pics on the 'net really leads me to believe that Glyph is a Wandering, as someone pointed out some time ago. I believe it was PINJOHN, but I looked and I can't find the post. After comparing Radix/Wandering pics it is pretty clear to me that Glyph is a Wandering, but I really don't want to say for sure because I've seen a few Radix pics and I can tell why the vet might be confused - but she seemed so sure of herself.(click for big)


414141394140

Oh, I wanted to add that Glyph is now 30 inches, up from 24 in December.
katach
02-19-2012, 05:56 PM
The tail looks female to me, but I'm no expert.
indigoman
02-19-2012, 06:00 PM
I would say wandering female.
EasternGirl
02-19-2012, 06:48 PM
I don't know...I'm not seeing any tapering...I'm thinking male....and I have no idea the species...but he/she is gorgeous Travis!
angrygamer
02-19-2012, 07:00 PM
Here's a couple more...

4142

4143
EasternGirl
02-19-2012, 07:03 PM
What a cutie! I'm not that good with identifying species because I haven't seen many of the different species in person. As far as sexing by pics goes, I'm just starting to try doing it so...I still get confused. Better get some more input from other members.
guidofatherof5
02-19-2012, 07:22 PM
Pure female. I leaning towards Thamnophis elegans vagrans - Wandering Gartersnake

Thamnophis elegans vagrans - Wandering Gartersnake (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.e.vagrans.html)
angrygamer
02-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Thanks Marnie! Pulling two similar random images of each off of Google, you can see what I mean:






Radix:

4144

4147




Wandering:


4145



4146



grr formatting again
angrygamer
02-19-2012, 07:37 PM
Pure female. I leaning towards Thamnophis elegans vagrans - Wandering Gartersnake

Thamnophis elegans vagrans - Wandering Gartersnake (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.e.vagrans.html)

Thanks! I asked the vet why she thought it was a Radix and she said because of the checkered pattern. Some variations of Radix are very similar to Wandering, but the pattern is not as distinct.
Eddie
02-19-2012, 07:38 PM
Female Wandering
angrygamer
02-19-2012, 07:42 PM
Yeah, this really gets my goat that this vet could be wrong about EVERYTHING she advised me on. I was thinking about taking Glyph back to the same clinic but to another vet, but I think i'll avoid that clinic all together. I based it on location/availability/price and I didn't see any bad reviews on the clinic but that doesn't mean anything. I posted a listing on Craigslist for exotic vet recommendations and I got one response. I don't know how else to get an exotic vet recommendation. Ideas, anyone? I could ask the pet store, but I'm kind of weary asking anyone who recommends goldfish as Garter food.
guidofatherof5
02-19-2012, 07:50 PM
Reptile Vet Finder (http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-vet-finder/)
EasternGirl
02-19-2012, 08:54 PM
Told you I'm still confused about the whole sexing thing...hey at least I got Nate's ribbon right ;). Yeah...try Steve's link...I would try to find another vet if I were you.
angrygamer
02-20-2012, 01:38 AM
Told you I'm still confused about the whole sexing thing...hey at least I got Nate's ribbon right ;). Yeah...try Steve's link...I would try to find another vet if I were you.I know what you mean, I am too. Every now and then I look at this diagram...I'm getting better. 4148
chris-uk
02-20-2012, 05:49 AM
I'd say female wandering, if it hadn't already been postulated, several times.

The vet is right to a degree about the radix checkerboard, but that applies to many species. There's more to an ID than just the pattern, in this case the colours are more typically vagrans. With some of the species that have greater polymorphism the only way to absolutely identify the species is knowing where it came from, as well as looking at it.
angrygamer
02-20-2012, 09:29 AM
I'd say female wandering, if it hadn't already been postulated, several times.

The vet is right to a degree about the radix checkerboard, but that applies to many species. There's more to an ID than just the pattern, in this case the colours are more typically vagrans. With some of the species that have greater polymorphism the only way to absolutely identify the species is knowing where it came from, as well as looking at it.

Thanks for your opinion. I am much more familiar with the varying species than when I first started (although there is still much to learn), and that particular shade of green is really only found in Wandering that I've seen. But when you have a licensed professional tell you something else it's kind of hard to doubt that. She was so sure of herself. *sigh*
ssssnakeluvr
02-20-2012, 09:37 AM
absolutely a female wandering. male wanderings have large long swellings at the base of the tail. I can post a pic of one later, but that is definitely a female.
and tell the vet that nearly all garters have the checkered patterns.... a pet store owner here in SLC called them checkered garters due to the checker pattern... duh ;)
angrygamer
02-20-2012, 09:50 AM
absolutely a female wandering. male wanderings have large long swellings at the base of the tail. I can post a pic of one later, but that is definitely a female.
and tell the vet that nearly all garters have the checkered patterns.... a pet store owner here in SLC called them checkered garters due to the checker pattern... duh ;)

Well I won't be seeing her again so this won't be a problem.
EasternGirl
02-20-2012, 01:36 PM
Travis...which book is that diagram from? When in doubt I think the best thing to do...and I think what Steve does...is the supralabial count to determine species...isn't that right?
angrygamer
02-20-2012, 01:37 PM
Travis...which book is that diagram from? When in doubt I think the best thing to do...and I think what Steve does...is the supralabial count to determine species...isn't that right?

It's from a web page, I'll give you the link, but...care to guess?
EasternGirl
02-20-2012, 01:48 PM
Totally drawing a blank right now...
angrygamer
02-20-2012, 01:48 PM
I mean guess the sex. They are labeled A, B, C...
chris-uk
02-20-2012, 01:56 PM
Travis...which book is that diagram from? When in doubt I think the best thing to do...and I think what Steve does...is the supralabial count to determine species...isn't that right?
You've seen page 126 of the garter bible Marnie? Similar pictures there.
I've seen the one Travis posted before, I think Steve may have posted an annotated version.
EasternGirl
02-20-2012, 01:59 PM
Yeah, yeah...those are the pics I always use to try to sex...on page 126. Let me look at those pics again and I will try to guess. I have to go clean up a guinea pig turd off my son's bed.
angrygamer
02-20-2012, 02:03 PM
Well I was just wondering if you'd like to take a stab at what sex they are before I gave you the link...consider it a "pop" quiz!

Every month or so I look at that pic and I don't commit the answers to memory, and I see if my ability to tell is better...it is. Also, I don't look at it anymore and think, "there's no way I'm ever going to learn how to tell."
EasternGirl
02-20-2012, 02:04 PM
It was a dog turd...this house is crazy. Okay...I'm guessing...A) Male B) Female C) Female D) Male E) Male?
angrygamer
02-20-2012, 02:06 PM
It was a dog turd...this house is crazy. Okay...I'm guessing...A) Male B) Female C) Female D) Male E) Male?

Wow, nice 4 out of 5.

Alan's Garter Snakes - Maintenance of Garter Snakes (http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/maintenance.htm#Sexing snakes)
EasternGirl
02-20-2012, 02:15 PM
Okay...see I always get confused because I look at the tail right after the vent and I look to see if there is any immediate tapering or if the sides of the tail stay parallel with the vent...maybe that is where I am wrong. Since the sides seemed to stay parallel in that first pic...with no immediate tapering...I assumed male. But maybe I have just been looking at it all wrong. I'll try looking using that diagram from now on...thanks for the link Travis!